Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

12/02/03 3:21:29 PM, carl easton <shavintel16@...> wrote:

> F wil rFt in SyvWn wiH His grMp tM. but sins F dOn't On mF On kompVtx it iz
> diffikult fP mI t kIp it konsistant. hQevx V hAv mF vOt HAt F wil rFt in
> SyvWn HO F kAn't sI it Az SyvWn bIkuz F dOn't hAv a font.
>
> best rIgRdz,
>
> kRal

Carl, I take it you are not allowed to install a Shavian font on the computer
you use? That would be frustrating to me, too!

Often I do work for other people with their computer, fixing something on it or
just showing them how to do something. At the same time, if they have internet
access, I make it a point to show them my website or something in Shavian. Then
I tell them that I can make it show up in the proper way if I install a font on
their computer. I have yet to have anyone refuse to allow me to do so, if it
was their computer. Of course if you use a computer at a library, school, or
work, you might not be able to get permission to install a new font. In that
case you will have to just save up and get yourself a computer of your own.
That would be ideal in any case.

I wish you the best in that endeavor, and am glad that you are happy to use
Shavian here even if it means reading and writing the "romanji" code!

Ethan

(Shavian version attached)

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12/02/03 8:05:32 AM, Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@...> wrote:

>The fact remains, gentlemen, that what you see below is all that I can
>see... Romanji gibberish. I don't have the capacity to display Shavian.
>
>--Star
>
>p.s. Am I the only woman here?

Hmm. I see your point. Now, why is it you can't display Shavian? Do you use
someone else's computer, or is it a limitation of your operating system? If so,
are you using Linux or some other Unix? I might be able to help. I use Linux
myself (though I'm not today, but wish I was!) and I am able to display all the
Shavian fonts without difficulty.

I also can't say if you are the only woman here! Sorry!

Ethan

(Shavian version attached)

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> > Start with laugh at the fat cat, and end with "And so it was that
> Jesus
> > appeared before the Nephytes" or what have you.
>
> Jesus appearing to the Nephites? :) Don't see that referred to often.

Sorry, was thinking of my mormon friend I just found again. Although,
it was normal for children in days of yore to learn to read the bible
as their first book.

--Star


=====
The Piscean Warrior:
Protector of the Innocent
Defender of the Weak
Wanderer of the Off

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Well, I'm staying here, and waiting until 1) I get my new computer set
up and everything and 2) I figure out how to do the keyboard
arrangement, before I start typing in Shavian.

--Star

--- carl easton <shavintel16@...> wrote:
> Hi Star,
>
> I see what you mean. I can't display Shavian either. But when I do
> or when other people do it looks like you said "romanji gibberish".
> It's almost like read a code. But... until I can afford a computer
> of my own I can't enjoy reading everybodies messages in our favorite
> writing system, Shavian.
>
> best of regards,
>
> Carl
>
> Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@...> wrote:
> The fact remains, gentlemen, that what you see below is all that I
> can
> see... Romanji gibberish. I don't have the capacity to display
> Shavian.
>
> --Star
>
> p.s. Am I the only woman here?
>
> --- Ethan <ethanl@...> wrote:
> > 12/01/03 9:46:18 PM, "Hugh Birkenhead"
> <mixsynth@...>
> > wrote:
> > (attached)
> >
> ---------------------------------
>
> hOld it GJOzif...
> H sAd fAkt iz, F kAnt afPd t kIp H mesaJ bPd up HX. it's not mF
> webspEs
> (it's Gfilip GnVtan'z) n it's kYziN him t eksId hiz spEs kwOta.
> if pIpal R rIalI kIn t get H bPd gOiN propDlI HE'd best dM sO kwiklI
> Az
> H bPd woznt gOiN t bI DQnd fP muc longD - mEbI a sxJ in intDest kUd
> cEnJ mF mFnd. it rIalI iz gUd fP lxniN hQ t rId n rFt HO, bikoz it
> fPsaz V t Vz GSEvIan, sO V kynt 'kop Qt' n rivxt t GrOman wen it gets
> difikalt.
> sO - GJOzif - dOnt abAndan His plEs jet fP sumwX HAt mFt not Ivan bI
> HX
> bF H end v H jC (unles mP pIpal tEk intDest).
> GhV
>
>
> /hV, hQ muc spEs duz jP mesiJ bPd tEk up? Fm SMD sumTiN kAn bI dun t
> kIp it in opDESan. pxhAps F kAn bI v sum asistans. it wUd bI a SEm
> t
> Just let it gO awE dM t lAk v spEs, munI, P intrest.
> rIgRdz,
> /ITan
>
>
>
> =====
> From the very beginning, all beings are Buddha. --Zen Master
> Hakuin
>
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Wanderer of the Off

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Here we have the "why johnny can't read" principle in effect. Adults
who learned to read by phonics do not actually read the whole word as
some researchers think, but instead combine the sounds so quickly it is
as if reading the whole word.

I agree, however, that replacing single sounds within words is a bad
idea. The entire alphabet should be presented, and perhaps small words
and then larger words within sentances, and finally sentances should be
replaced. Would this work?

--Star

>
> That book was published by an acquaintence of mine.
> (I'm the one who first introduced him to Shavian.) I'd say
> the modifications to Shavian to fit Esperanto's sound
> system were more than slight, although it works well and
> maintains a kind of symetry. Those who have learned
> traditional Shavian may not like it. (The book was reviewed
> in an Esperanto-language magazine by a German man
> who had previously learned Shavian for English. In his
> review, he was horrified that anyone would change the
> sound values of any Shavian letters.)
>
> If you read Esperanto, and want a copy, I still have a
> few copies around here. Let me know your mailing
> address, and I'll send you one. (It's an Esperanto version
> of a science fiction story called "Tri-gamba Jocxjo"
> [= "Three-legged Joe."])
>
> While we're on the subject of beginners' books. This
> book is an excellent example of how NOT to introduce
> Shavian. In chapter one, four Shavian characters are
> introduced. Words are written in Latin letters with those
> four Shavian characters replacing the corresponding
> Latin ones. In chapter two, four more characters are
> introduced.
>
> The problem is that we don't read by looking at the
> individual letters. We read by recognizing an entire
> word at a time. So in each chapter of the book, I need
> to relearnall the words I've seen in previous chapters
> because another letter has been introduced.
>
> It would be far better to introduce all letters at once, but
> introduce a small set of short common words spelled
> completely in Shavian with the other text in Latin. Such
> words as _the, is, are, pronouns_, etc. as a start, then
> slowly add more of the short words in Shavian, etc.,
> until eventually the entire text is in Shavian.
>
> --Phillip Driscoll
> --phild@...
>
>
>


=====
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Defender of the Weak
Wanderer of the Off

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Star Raven skribis:
>
> I agree, however, that replacing single sounds within words is a bad
> idea. The entire alphabet should be presented, and perhaps small words
> and then larger words within sentances, and finally sentances should be
> replaced. Would this work?


Yes. I'd start with the short common words: is,
are, was, the pronouns, demonstratives, some
conjunctions. For example, if the following text
appeared on the first page, the words in quotes
would be in Shavian:

# "I" agree, however, "that" replacing single
# sounds within words "is" "a" bad idea. "The"
# entire alphabet should "be" presented, "and"
# perhaps small words "and" "then" larger words
# within sentances, "and" finally sentances should
# "be" replaced. Would "this" work?

On the next page, more short common words could
be introduced. Eventually the entire text would be in
Shavian. For children, Dr. Suess is good because
short common words are repeated over and over
along with rhyming words. A Dr. Suess book could
be entirely in Shavian.

--Ph. D.



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12/02/03 11:56:21 PM, Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@...> wrote:

>Here we have the "why johnny can't read" principle in effect. Adults
>who learned to read by phonics do not actually read the whole word as
>some researchers think, but instead combine the sounds so quickly it is
>as if reading the whole word.
>
>I agree, however, that replacing single sounds within words is a bad
>idea. The entire alphabet should be presented, and perhaps small words
>and then larger words within sentances, and finally sentances should be
>replaced. Would this work?
>
>--Star

On this I agree. I learned to read using phonics, and I do read by putting the
letters together. But as soon as I have learned a word, I recognize it as a
word, not as individual letters. I believe this is normal. The use of
different writing systems mixed within a single word would be most difficult, I
would think! for an example, one needs to be able to view the attached html...

Ethan


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12/03/03 12:33:05 AM, "Ph. D." <phild@...> wrote:

>Star Raven skribis:
>>
>> I agree, however, that replacing single sounds within words is a bad
>> idea. The entire alphabet should be presented, and perhaps small words
>> and then larger words within sentances, and finally sentances should be
>> replaced. Would this work?
>
>
>Yes. I'd start with the short common words: is,
>are, was, the pronouns, demonstratives, some
>conjunctions. For example, if the following text
>appeared on the first page, the words in quotes
>would be in Shavian:
>
># "I" agree, however, "that" replacing single
># sounds within words "is" "a" bad idea. "The"
># entire alphabet should "be" presented, "and"
># perhaps small words "and" "then" larger words
># within sentances, "and" finally sentances should
># "be" replaced. Would "this" work?
>
>On the next page, more short common words could
>be introduced. Eventually the entire text would be in
>Shavian. For children, Dr. Suess is good because
>short common words are repeated over and over
>along with rhyming words. A Dr. Suess book could
>be entirely in Shavian.
>
>--Ph. D.

Here's an attached example of what that would look like.
Ethan


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Ethan,

I am using Redhat Linux. What is the easy way to display the Shavian fonts.

Thanks for the help.

Paige Gabhart

----- Original Message -----

From: Ethan <mailto:ethanl@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Hello and Goodbye

12/02/03 8:05:32 AM, Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@... <mailto:celestraof12worlds@...> > wrote:

>Hmm. I see your point. Now, why is it you can't display Shavian? Do you use
someone else's computer, or is it a limitation of your operating system? If so,
are you using Linux or some other Unix? I might be able to help. I use Linux
myself (though I'm not today, but wish I was!) and I am able to display all the
Shavian fonts without difficulty.

I also can't say if you are the only woman here! Sorry!

Ethan

(Shavian version attached)

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On 2 Dec 2003 at 20:48, Star Raven wrote:

> > > Start with laugh at the fat cat, and end with "And so it was that
> > Jesus
> > > appeared before the Nephytes" or what have you.
> >
> > Jesus appearing to the Nephites? :) Don't see that referred to often.
>
> Sorry, was thinking of my mormon friend I just found again. Although,
> it was normal for children in days of yore to learn to read the bible
> as their first book.

And I seem to recall hearing that there's a literacy course sponsored
by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that uses the Book
of Mormon as its main text.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>


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