Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

I've been thinking a bit on this, and how I was taught Hiragana in
japanese class and how the shorthand books teach. For adults, and also
for children with previous alphabets, I think what would work best is a
book that begins in TO and ends in Shavian, slowly changing from one to
the other.

Start with laugh at the fat cat, and end with "And so it was that Jesus
appeared before the Nephytes" or what have you. What can I say, I learn
slowly.

--Star

--- carl easton <shavintel16@...> wrote:
> Hi Star,
>
> I learned Shavian, mostly like an adult who has studied phonetics
> would. Though I'm only 22, I am rather fluent with using shavian.
> (Though my spelling represents mostly the phonemes in triggered in my
> head when I read rather than how I actually pronounce it verbally.)
> [This is of course when I have no time to refer to a dictionary for
> proper pronouncation.] The source I learned Shavian from was
> www.omniglot.com. Though the learning curve took me six months with
> help from (of course) my Shavian Buds (Everybody in this discussion
> group's help.)
>
> Well I just rambled for a whole paragraph. Let's see how to overcome
> the learning curve?
>
> I guess start with the shavian letters that have a direct equivalent
> first. Then the ones we traditionally use digraphs for. And when
> you teach the vowels use examples to show the differences.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Carl
>
> n trMT iz noliJ v TiNz Az HE R n Az HE wx n Az HE R t kum
>
>
> Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@...> wrote:
> I've snuck shavian into my novel, (don't ask, I just have) and I'm
> curious as to whether any one has come up with a method for learning
> to
> read it fluently besides simply struggling through?
>
> I'm thinking of applying the "Why Johnny Can't Read" Principles to
> it,
> and perhaps we should look into, as funny as this might sound,
> transliterating Dr. Seuss books, such as the cat in the hat. Hey, it
> beats dick and jane.
>
> --Star, whose shavian handwriting sucks less than her TO handwriting.
>
> =====
> From the very beginning, all beings are Buddha. --Zen Master
> Hakuin
>
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Just FYI. The American Heritage Dictionary is on-line here:

http://www.bartleby.com/61/




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?

----- Original Message -----
From: Ethan <mailto:ethanl@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Learning curve

12/01/03 3:36:44 PM, carl easton <shavintel16@... <mailto:shavintel16@...> > wrote:

I have an idea. Why not use Shavian in this group more often? If you use html,
you can designate Shavian fonts for your text, and it should show up for most
people who use html-capable email software, or the web interface, and who have
the common Shavian fonts installed, i.e. Ghoti, Lionspaw, Androcles, ...

I see a lot of dialog here, but it's almost all in Roman text. If everyone
would use even just a little bit of Shavian in their postings, it would help
others as well as themselves for learning Shavian.

I don't currently have an email program capable of composing in html, but I can
always attach a self-composed html message, and it should show up inline (in the
same page) with the email. I'll make this one a test, and attach this entire
message in Shavian.

Ethan
The chicken came first.

You're not the first to suggest this:

----- Original Message -----
From: Mitch Morris <mailto:Narmical@Phantommx.com>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 9:44 PM
Subject: [shavian] Shavian, The list and me [font fix]

His iz sumTiN Hat F wuz TiNkiN AboQt tMdE Hat E wontd t sX. sumTiN Hat E HiNk H SavWn kOmVnitI nIdz iz E plEs t diskus genxul stuf. DiskuSin simulD t TOz mesiJ bPdz wX pIpul Just tYk AbQt stuf eksept Ql pOsts R in SavWn. F am mP Han wiliN t hOst suc E bPd on mF web sFt if pIpul won. UHXwiz wI kud Just Vz His list. nQ F wil stRt wun. EnI wun hC plE kompVtD gEmz? E Just got mist 3, wun Ysum game. enI wun wont t tYk abQt it?

That wasn't the first time either...

----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mailto:mixsynth@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:17 AM
Subject: [shavian] And now for something completely different...

hF,

F hAv disFdid t rFt in /SEvian bikoz H Onli stuf HAt hAz bIn sxkjUlEtiN rIsantli hAz bIn stuf HAt kwescanz H veri nEcD v /SEvian. wFl F'm not agenst it, F TiNk wI SUd lE it Yl t wun sFd, krAk Opan a bC, n tYk a bit in /SEvian. F mIn, hC'z His wundDfUl Alfabet HAt iz hel betD HAn H wun it riplEsiz, n Yl wI kAn TiNk t dM iz tYk abQt it... :)

sO hC F Am, tYkiN in it. HX iz nO rIzan fP it, but wot H hel. F inJq rFtiN in it. HAt's wun v H TiNz F inJq abQt H Alfabet mOst. jet F hAvant hAd H cyns in fR tM loN, n F TiNk H /SEvian mEliN list SUd bI H prFm plEs t dM it.

kum on Hen evriwun, let's lE dFalekts, Vs v kAriktDz, stuf lFk HAt, Yl t wun sFd fP a mOmant n mEk sum prAktikal Vs v His wundDfUl Alfabet.

/hV

There have been many attempts to get Shavian chat going. Bottom line is, it never keeps going. It's all too easy to revert to Roman. The Shavian forums I started with the hope of making it easier to read/write Shavian by practice never took off and had to be closed. I'll be glad to start talking in Shavian just for the hell of it, again, but talking *about* the alphabet always seems to take precedence! Oh well...

best kIp trFiN Hen! hC'z a gUd TiN t stRt wiH. if His lUks stoJI HX iz a wE t mEk it smMHD At HIz sFzaz, in /windOz /eks /pI - gO t displE propDtIz (in kantrOl pAnal), apCans tab, ifekts, n cEnJ H "meTad t smMH eJiz v skrIn fonts" t "klCtFp". it smMHz fonts v Yl sFzaz, not Just lRJD sFzaz (Az iz H dIfYlt). giv it a trF.

GhV


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Problem being is that my browser is incabable of reproducing shavian
other than in a image format.

--Star

--- Ethan <ethanl@...> wrote:
> 12/01/03 3:36:44 PM, carl easton <shavintel16@...> wrote:
>
> > I guess start with the shavian letters that have a direct
> equivalent first.
> > Then the ones we traditionally use digraphs for. And when you
> teach the
> > vowels use examples to show the differences.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > n trMT iz noliJ v TiNz Az HE R n Az HE wx n Az HE R t kum
>
> I have an idea. Why not use Shavian in this group more often? If
> you use html,
> you can designate Shavian fonts for your text, and it should show up
> for most
> people who use html-capable email software, or the web interface, and
> who have
> the common Shavian fonts installed, i.e. Ghoti, Lionspaw, Androcles,
> ...
>
> I see a lot of dialog here, but it's almost all in Roman text. If
> everyone
> would use even just a little bit of Shavian in their postings, it
> would help
> others as well as themselves for learning Shavian.
>
> I don't currently have an email program capable of composing in html,
> but I can
> always attach a self-composed html message, and it should show up
> inline (in the
> same page) with the email. I'll make this one a test, and attach
> this entire
> message in Shavian.
>
> Ethan
> The chicken came first.
>
---------------------------------
body {margin-left: 10%;margin-right: 10%;background-color:
#fff;font-family: arial,verdana,sans-serif;font-size: 16px;}.ro
{font-family: arial,verdana,sans-serif;font-size: 16px;}.sh
{font-family: ghoti,lionspaw,androcles;font-size:16px;}This should be
Roman.

His SUd bI /SEvWn.
And back to Roman.
Now here's a good question.
hQ SUd it bI ritan n prOnQnst, /SEvWn P /SYvWn?
------------------------------------------------------------
F hAv an FdW. wF not Vz /SEvWn in His grMp mP oftan? if V Vz html, V
kAndezignEt /SEvWn fonts fP jP tekst, n it SUd SO up fP mOst pIpl hM Vz
html-kEpabl ImEl softwX, P H web intDfEs, n hM hAv H koman /SEvWn fonts
instyld, F.I. /gOtI (/fiS?), /lFanzpY, /AndraklIz, ...
F sI a lot v dFalog hC, but its ylmOst yl in /rOman tekst. if evrIwun
wUd Vz Ivan Justa litl bit v /SEvWn in HX pOstiNz, it wUd help uHDz Az
wel Az Hemselvz fP lxniN /SEvWn.
F dOnt kxantlI hAv an ImEl prOgrAm kEpabl v kumpOziN in html, but F
kAnylwEz atAc a self-kumpOzd html mesiJ, n it SUd SO up inlFn (in H
sEmpEJ) wiT H ImEl. Fl mEk His wun a test, n atAc His entFD mesiJ in
/SEvWn.
/ITan
H cikan kEm fxst.



=====
From the very beginning, all beings are Buddha. --Zen Master Hakuin

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It's also online on www.dictionary.com

Hugh B


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ph. D." <phild@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:01 AM
Subject: [shavian] American Heritage Dictionary


> Just FYI. The American Heritage Dictionary is on-line here:
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/
>
>
>
>
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>
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>

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?

----- Original Message -----
From: Ethan <mailto:ethanl@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Learning curve

12/01/03 3:36:44 PM, carl easton <shavintel16@... <mailto:shavintel16@...> > wrote:

I have an idea. Why not use Shavian in this group more often? If you use html,
you can designate Shavian fonts for your text, and it should show up for most
people who use html-capable email software, or the web interface, and who have
the common Shavian fonts installed, i.e. Ghoti, Lionspaw, Androcles, ...

I see a lot of dialog here, but it's almost all in Roman text. If everyone
would use even just a little bit of Shavian in their postings, it would help
others as well as themselves for learning Shavian.

I don't currently have an email program capable of composing in html, but I can
always attach a self-composed html message, and it should show up inline (in the
same page) with the email. I'll make this one a test, and attach this entire
message in Shavian.

Ethan
The chicken came first.

You're not the first to suggest this:

----- Original Message -----
From: Mitch Morris <mailto:Narmical@Phantommx.com>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 9:44 PM
Subject: [shavian] Shavian, The list and me [font fix]

His iz sumTiN Hat F wuz TiNkiN AboQt tMdE Hat E wontd t sX. sumTiN Hat E HiNk H SavWn kOmVnitI nIdz iz E plEs t diskus genxul stuf. DiskuSin simulD t TOz mesiJ bPdz wX pIpul Just tYk AbQt stuf eksept Ql pOsts R in SavWn. F am mP Han wiliN t hOst suc E bPd on mF web sFt if pIpul won. UHXwiz wI kud Just Vz His list. nQ F wil stRt wun. EnI wun hC plE kompVtD gEmz? E Just got mist 3, wun Ysum game. enI wun wont t tYk abQt it?

That wasn't the first time either...

----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mailto:mixsynth@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:17 AM
Subject: [shavian] And now for something completely different...

hF,

F hAv disFdid t rFt in /SEvian bikoz H Onli stuf HAt hAz bIn sxkjUlEtiN rIsantli hAz bIn stuf HAt kwescanz H veri nEcD v /SEvian. wFl F'm not agenst it, F TiNk wI SUd lE it Yl t wun sFd, krAk Opan a bC, n tYk a bit in /SEvian. F mIn, hC'z His wundDfUl Alfabet HAt iz hel betD HAn H wun it riplEsiz, n Yl wI kAn TiNk t dM iz tYk abQt it... :)

sO hC F Am, tYkiN in it. HX iz nO rIzan fP it, but wot H hel. F inJq rFtiN in it. HAt's wun v H TiNz F inJq abQt H Alfabet mOst. jet F hAvant hAd H cyns in fR tM loN, n F TiNk H /SEvian mEliN list SUd bI H prFm plEs t dM it.

kum on Hen evriwun, let's lE dFalekts, Vs v kAriktDz, stuf lFk HAt, Yl t wun sFd fP a mOmant n mEk sum prAktikal Vs v His wundDfUl Alfabet.

/hV

There have been many attempts to get Shavian chat going. Bottom line is, it never keeps going. It's all too easy to revert to Roman. The Shavian forums I started with the hope of making it easier to read/write Shavian by practice never took off and had to be closed. I'll be glad to start talking in Shavian just for the hell of it, again, but talking *about* the alphabet always seems to take precedence! Oh well...

best kIp trFiN Hen! hC'z a gUd TiN t stRt wiH. if His lUks stoJI HX iz a wE t mEk it smMHD At HIz sFzaz, in /windOz /eks /pI - gO t displE propDtIz (in kantrOl pAnal), apCans tab, ifekts, n cEnJ H "meTad t smMH eJiz v skrIn fonts" t "klCtFp". it smMHz fonts v Yl sFzaz, not Just lRJD sFzaz (Az iz H dIfYlt). giv it a trF.

GhV

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It's also online on www.dictionary.com

Hugh B


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ph. D." <phild@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:01 AM
Subject: [shavian] American Heritage Dictionary


> Just FYI. The American Heritage Dictionary is on-line here:
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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I will write in shavian, but I cannot display it in this forum. The
same goes for several other people here.

We need a place where shavian font is easily displayed and is the
automatic choice of font. Also, we must move lock stock and barrel to
there. Nothing else will work.

I am behind the move, but we must all agree.

Tell me, if we use it not then who will?

Thanks, and in all seriousness,
Joseph

<shavian>fP gudnes sEk, let uz mMv fPwDd</shavian>


--- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ethan
> To: shavian@...
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 10:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [shavian] Learning curve
>
>
> 12/01/03 3:36:44 PM, carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
>
> I have an idea. Why not use Shavian in this group more often?
If you use html,
> you can designate Shavian fonts for your text, and it should show
up for most
> people who use html-capable email software, or the web interface,
and who have
> the common Shavian fonts installed, i.e. Ghoti, Lionspaw,
Androcles, ...
>
> I see a lot of dialog here, but it's almost all in Roman text.
If everyone
> would use even just a little bit of Shavian in their postings, it
would help
> others as well as themselves for learning Shavian.
>
> I don't currently have an email program capable of composing in
html, but I can
> always attach a self-composed html message, and it should show up
inline (in the
> same page) with the email. I'll make this one a test, and attach
this entire
> message in Shavian.
>
> Ethan
> The chicken came first.
> You're not the first to suggest this:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mitch Morris
> To: shavian@...
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 9:44 PM
> Subject: [shavian] Shavian, The list and me [font fix]
>
>
> His iz sumTiN Hat F wuz TiNkiN AboQt tMdE Hat E wontd t sX. sumTiN
Hat E HiNk H SavWn kOmVnitI nIdz iz E plEs t diskus genxul stuf.
DiskuSin simulD t TOz mesiJ bPdz wX pIpul Just tYk AbQt stuf eksept
Ql pOsts R in SavWn. F am mP Han wiliN t hOst suc E bPd on mF web sFt
if pIpul won. UHXwiz wI kud Just Vz His list. nQ F wil stRt wun. EnI
wun hC plE kompVtD gEmz? E Just got mist 3, wun Ysum game. enI wun
wont t tYk abQt it?
>
> That wasn't the first time either...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hugh Birkenhead
> To: shavian@...
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:17 AM
> Subject: [shavian] And now for something completely different...
>
>
> hF,
>
> F hAv disFdid t rFt in /SEvian bikoz H Onli stuf HAt hAz bIn
sxkjUlEtiN rIsantli hAz bIn stuf HAt kwescanz H veri nEcD v /SEvian.
wFl F'm not agenst it, F TiNk wI SUd lE it Yl t wun sFd, krAk Opan a
bC, n tYk a bit in /SEvian. F mIn, hC'z His wundDfUl Alfabet HAt iz
hel betD HAn H wun it riplEsiz, n Yl wI kAn TiNk t dM iz tYk abQt
it... :)
>
> sO hC F Am, tYkiN in it. HX iz nO rIzan fP it, but wot H hel. F
inJq rFtiN in it. HAt's wun v H TiNz F inJq abQt H Alfabet mOst. jet
F hAvant hAd H cyns in fR tM loN, n F TiNk H /SEvian mEliN list SUd
bI H prFm plEs t dM it.
>
> kum on Hen evriwun, let's lE dFalekts, Vs v kAriktDz, stuf lFk HAt,
Yl t wun sFd fP a mOmant n mEk sum prAktikal Vs v His wundDfUl
Alfabet.
>
> /hV
>
> There have been many attempts to get Shavian chat going. Bottom
line is, it never keeps going. It's all too easy to revert to Roman.
The Shavian forums I started with the hope of making it easier to
read/write Shavian by practice never took off and had to be closed.
I'll be glad to start talking in Shavian just for the hell of it,
again, but talking *about* the alphabet always seems to take
precedence! Oh well...
>
> best kIp trFiN Hen! hC'z a gUd TiN t stRt wiH. if His lUks stoJI HX
iz a wE t mEk it smMHD At HIz sFzaz, in /windOz /eks /pI - gO t
displE propDtIz (in kantrOl pAnal), apCans tab, ifekts, n cEnJ
H "meTad t smMH eJiz v skrIn fonts" t "klCtFp". it smMHz fonts v Yl
sFzaz, not Just lRJD sFzaz (Az iz H dIfYlt). giv it a trF.
>
> GhV


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12/01/03 7:13:46 PM, "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@...> wrote:

>
>
> To: <shavian@...>
>
> From: "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@...>
> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:13:46 -0000
> Subject:Re: [shavian] Learning curve

Reply attached.


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I am leaving, for a better place, a place where shavian is de rigeur.

I am going to that messageboard which Hugh started. It appears to
work yet, and so that is where I am going to hang, posting solely in
shavian.

Hugh's message was very clear, and sharp is the point: if we stay at
home complaining, then the tyrant never gets toppled.

That is, why bitch about roman, in roman, congratulating ourselves
for having found a better script, and yet never using that script?

I don't wish to annoy anybody, but you have to see the
irony/hypocrisy of it, surely?

To be honest, I am not fluent in reading shavian because I get to
read it so unoften. There is little incentive for a person to use
shavian, we must at least give them something to read, even if it is
only our complaining.

I think I'm finished now. Sorry if it hurts to say, but here we are
not doing a thing to help shavian move forward.

Go to www.shavian.org and follow the link to find Hugh's board.

God be, and thanks
Joseph




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