Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

> On 18 Jul 2003 at 18:55, Star Raven wrote:
>
> Letter Q W E R T Y U I O P
> Normal (.) kick ha peep tot lol mum fee sh ch
> Shift gag ng bib deed roar nun vow zh j
>
> Letter A S D F G H J K L
> Normal out wool on if ash ado egg ah ian
> Shift oi ooze oh eat ice up age awe
>
> Letter Z X C V B N M
> Normal are air array yea they whip so
> Shift or urge ear yew thigh woe zoo
>

The only problem is described below. As the traditional Shavian fonts
do not allow for the /hw/ sound, I created my own letter described
below.

> Whip is the /hw/ sound. I created this
> sound by combining ha and woe with a tiny ha at the lower part of the
> slash that makes up woe, I could try to explain this further if you
> wish. (It evolved while I was hand-writing William Blake poetry in
> shavian :)
>

Since I'm not sure if this can be added, then I will revert to using
haha+woe if neccessary. Hey, I'm not giving up on that one letter. :)

--Star

=====
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Protector of the Innocent
Defender of the Weak
Wanderer of the Off

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Luckily I have access to a Mac os X machine on occasion :D Is there no
way of making this into a truetype font? Shavian Dvorak would be fine
or how about Shavian-Lowe? Am I correct in thinking there might have
already been a Dvorak? I've reposted my corrected set up.

Random,
--Star

--- Scott Harrison <scott@...> wrote:
>
> On Sunday, Dec 7, 2003, at 06:14 Europe/Paris, Star Raven wrote:
>
> >
> > BTW, Scott, was it you who offered to do the mapping change from
> the
> > Traditional Romanji? If so, in some previous e-mail, I have written
> > down a Dvorak-like keyboard, I will look through the archive and my
> > saved mail to try and find it.
> >
> >
> I offered to make a Mac OS X key layout method that used different
> keys than the ones traditionally used in Ross DeMeyere's fonts. If
> we
> are calling this Romanji then yes, it was me. Since I call this
> Romanji keylayout Shavian, what do you think I should call the one
> that
> is in your pseudo-Dvorak layout -- were you thinking Shavian Dvorak?
>
> --
> Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86
>
>


=====
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Protector of the Innocent
Defender of the Weak
Wanderer of the Off

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On Sunday, Dec 7, 2003, at 17:31 Europe/Paris, Star Raven wrote:

> Luckily I have access to a Mac os X machine on occasion :D Is there no
> way of making this into a truetype font? Shavian Dvorak would be fine
> or how about Shavian-Lowe? Am I correct in thinking there might have
> already been a Dvorak? I've reposted my corrected set up.
>
>
I take it your name is Lowe, and therefore, I shall call it Shavian
Lowe (probably without the hyphen. Note that I will probably present
it in Shavian and therefore it will be the namer dot + Loll + Oak. The
font that I use currently is esl_gothic_unicode.ttf which is a TrueType
font that contains the Shavian code points as they are meant to be in
Unicode 4.0 as well as what they were in the private use area. I would
recommend using this font as any Shavian data that is in Unicode will
be rendered properly. I also advocate that we use Unicode for Shavian
in all circumstances (which means people need to learn how to handle
Unicode data in whatever tools they use).

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86


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On Sunday, Dec 7, 2003, at 17:29 Europe/Paris, Star Raven wrote:

>> Letter Q W E R T Y U I O P
>> Normal (.) kick ha peep tot lol mum fee sh ch
>> Shift gag ng bib deed roar nun vow zh j
>>
>> Letter A S D F G H J K L
>> Normal out wool on if ash ado egg ah ian
>> Shift oi ooze oh eat ice up age awe
>>
>> Letter Z X C V B N M
>> Normal are air array yea they whip so
>> Shift or urge ear yew thigh woe zoo
>>
I have put onto my webpage the Shavian Lowe keymapping. It is as
above, having Q, L and n be dead keys. The whip letter I assume is
your hw sound and I have the keyboard do nothing with that since it is
not part of Shavian. This can be downloaded from just below the table
with the other one. Both can exist on the same system so one can go
back and forth between keyboards if one really wants. :-)

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86


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*giggle* as if I would be adverse to (namer dot)lol-oak! My maiden name
is Scarbrough, so believe me, I'm quite happy with Lowe. At any rate
I'm not really sure how using unicode fit into everything as I am not
technically minded, however, my DH is, and I'm sure he can figure it
out.

Dumb Blonde who isn't blonde,
--Star


--- Scott Harrison <scott@...> wrote:
>
> On Sunday, Dec 7, 2003, at 17:31 Europe/Paris, Star Raven wrote:
>
> > Luckily I have access to a Mac os X machine on occasion :D Is there
> no
> > way of making this into a truetype font? Shavian Dvorak would be
> fine
> > or how about Shavian-Lowe? Am I correct in thinking there might
> have
> > already been a Dvorak? I've reposted my corrected set up.
> >
> >
> I take it your name is Lowe, and therefore, I shall call it Shavian
> Lowe (probably without the hyphen. Note that I will probably present
>
> it in Shavian and therefore it will be the namer dot + Loll + Oak.
> The
> font that I use currently is esl_gothic_unicode.ttf which is a
> TrueType
> font that contains the Shavian code points as they are meant to be in
>
> Unicode 4.0 as well as what they were in the private use area. I
> would
> recommend using this font as any Shavian data that is in Unicode will
>
> be rendered properly. I also advocate that we use Unicode for
> Shavian
> in all circumstances (which means people need to learn how to handle
> Unicode data in whatever tools they use).
>
> --
> Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86
>
>


=====
The Piscean Warrior:
Protector of the Innocent
Defender of the Weak
Wanderer of the Off

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Since losing the whip sound as I thought I might, you might want to
make N the dead key and move woe down to n. Since the dead keys are at
the edge, it might also be prudent to switch so and zoo with woe. Does
this make sense?

Sorry to be a perfectionist,
--Star

--- Scott Harrison <scott@...> wrote:
>
> On Sunday, Dec 7, 2003, at 17:29 Europe/Paris, Star Raven wrote:
>
> >> Letter Q W E R T Y U I O P
> >> Normal (.) kick ha peep tot lol mum fee sh ch
> >> Shift gag ng bib deed roar nun vow zh j
> >>
> >> Letter A S D F G H J K L
> >> Normal out wool on if ash ado egg ah ian
> >> Shift oi ooze oh eat ice up age awe
> >>
> >> Letter Z X C V B N M
> >> Normal are air array yea they whip so
> >> Shift or urge ear yew thigh woe zoo
> >>
> I have put onto my webpage the Shavian Lowe keymapping. It is as
> above, having Q, L and n be dead keys. The whip letter I assume is
> your hw sound and I have the keyboard do nothing with that since it
> is
> not part of Shavian. This can be downloaded from just below the
> table
> with the other one. Both can exist on the same system so one can go
> back and forth between keyboards if one really wants. :-)
>
> --
> Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86
>
>


=====
The Piscean Warrior:
Protector of the Innocent
Defender of the Weak
Wanderer of the Off

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On Sunday, Dec 7, 2003, at 21:41 Europe/Paris, Star Raven wrote:

> Since losing the whip sound as I thought I might, you might want to
> make N the dead key and move woe down to n. Since the dead keys are at
> the edge, it might also be prudent to switch so and zoo with woe. Does
> this make sense?
>
>
'Tis your choice as you are its designer. I will let you think about
it and see if anyone else wants to comment, and implement it tomorrow
or the next day. It really does not matter to me as I use the original
one I did. I am not sure I would want to switch because I am so used
to the other one.

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86


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Star Raven wrote:
> *giggle* as if I would be adverse to (namer dot)lol-oak! My maiden name
> is Scarbrough, so believe me, I'm quite happy with Lowe. At any rate
> I'm not really sure how using unicode fit into everything as I am not
> technically minded, however, my DH is, and I'm sure he can figure it
> out.
>
> Dumb Blonde who isn't blonde,
> --Star

It's pretty simple, actually. The font (ESL Gothic Unicode) contains
the Shavian letters in the traditional (Androcles) order, and each
letter is assigned a number. (Example below) When you use the font, you
use a keyboard layout setup (it's a DLL for Windows, other OS's have
different methods) which chooses the proper letter (by number) for each
key. This way you can easily change the letter to key mapping without
changing your font.

This compares with the older method, such as is used with the fonts
created by Ross DeMeyer (Ghoti, Androcles) where a font is designed
which replaces the Roman letters with Shavian ones. With this mapping
you have to change the font to change the key map - and if you want a
different layout, you can only hope the font designer creates one for you.

BTW, this Unicode font also contains the entire Roman character set, so
it can be used for both alphabets, and the character style will match.
If you switch back and forth between Roman and Shavian, in your keyboard
layout, you can still use the same font.

Examples:

Peep 10450
Tot 10451
Kick 10452
Fee 10453
Thigh 10454
So 10455
Sure 10456
Church 10457
Yea 10458
Hung 10459
Bib 1045A
Dead 1045B
Gag 1045C
Vow 1045D
They 1045E
Zoo 1045F
Measure 10460
Judge 10461
Woe 10462
Ha-ha 10463
etc....

Latin text:

A 41
B 42
C 43
D 44
E 45
F 46
G 47
H 48
I 49
J 4A
K 4B
L 4C
M 4D
N 4E
O 4F
P 50
a 5B
b 5C
etc....

Look at the attached HTML file for another example. Look at the source
of the html, that is, open it with Wordpad for instance, or open it in
your browser and select your browser's "view source" function. You can
see how I used the numbers to refer to the letters.

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Scott Harrison wrote:
> On Sunday, Dec 7, 2003, at 21:41 Europe/Paris, Star Raven wrote:
>
>
>>Since losing the whip sound as I thought I might, you might want to
>>make N the dead key and move woe down to n. Since the dead keys are at
>>the edge, it might also be prudent to switch so and zoo with woe. Does
>>this make sense?
>>
>>
>
> 'Tis your choice as you are its designer. I will let you think about
> it and see if anyone else wants to comment, and implement it tomorrow
> or the next day. It really does not matter to me as I use the original
> one I did. I am not sure I would want to switch because I am so used
> to the other one.

What layout do you use, Scott? I can't remember if you said or not. Is
it the traditional one, or different?

Ethan


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Scott Harrison wrote:
>
> IANAL (I am not a lawyer), but I do not think it is after the death of
> the author, but rather after the original was copyrighted. There is
> the normal extension that is made which makes it something like 70
> years. However, Disney was successful in lobbying Congress (in the
> U.S.) to extend this because the copyright on the original Mickey Mouse
> images (from Steamboat Mickey) were about to expire and they did not
> want those images to enter into the public domain. I imagine the Dr.
> Seuss books were much more recent than the late 20's and therefore even
> without the Disney extensions the copyright would not go away for quite
> some time. Therefore, one would need to contact the current copyright
> holders to be able to release anything to the public.


I am not a lawyer either. Prior to 1978, copyrights were issued for
twenty-six years from date of publication (and a copyright notice and
date had to be affixed to the item). This could be renewed one time
for another twenty-six years. This was a great system, and having the
date made it easy to calculate when it expired.

However, most of the remainder of the world did it a different way. Most
countries have copyrights which extend to a certain number of years
after the author's death. To get in line with international treaties, the US
Congress changed US copyrights to run until fifty years after the death
of the author. Furthermore, no copyright notice is required. The copy-
right exists from the moment an author puts pen to paper.

The Disney Corporation realized that early films of Mickey Mouse would
soon be in the public domain and pressured Congress to extend the
term to seventy years. As I recall, there was quite an outcry when this
happened, so I'm not sure if they can successfully extend it again.

(I think this is a terrible system. For lesser known authors, it can be
very difficult to find out when the author died. They should have just
made it seventy-five years from date of publication.)

If you want to use Dr. Seuss, I'd suggest writing to the copyright
holder. Explain what you want to do. They may give permission (or
sell permission) for a one-time printing, not to exceed a certain
number of copies. Has anyone considered how these books would
be printed and distributed?

--Phillip Driscoll



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