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Hi Folks,

Concerning the role Shavian should play to literate English-speaking world: As for me I am highly literate with Traditional Orthography (T.O.). However, I prefer Shavian over T.O.. I would like to be just as literate with Shavian as with T.O., though there is not enough literature to become super-literate at reading Shavian. So, what I would like to do is transliterate existing texts into Shavian, once I get an internet-ready computer. And I will first transliterate the "Standard Works" of my Church. Then I will transliterate just about anything else the Shavian Community would like to see into Shavian.

Though, that is ambitious it is a worthwhile goal. I think one of the first few steps to exposing the English-speaking world to the benefits of Shavian, to bring out Shavian books, then the other stuff it takes to give further exposure to Shavian. And that is what I hope we can do to publicize our favorite writing system -- Shavian.

best regards,

Carl /kRal/

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Hi Carl & the group
As for the role the Shavian Alphabet should play to literate English-
speaking world:
I find literacy even with the Traditional Orthography (T.O.) to a
constant challenge to stay up to date.
That's why I prefer Shavian over the T.O.
There isn't the struggle to pick up the correct pronunciation.
A lot of new English word are borrowed from french and have a variant
pronunciation (i.e. Ouevre)
I would like to be able to read as fast with Shavian as with T.O.,
though there is not enough literature to become super-swift at
reading Shavian.

So, what I hoping is that someone will build a program to
transliterate existing texts into Shavian, so I can more practice.
It would be nice if their was a newspaper, even.

I am glad to hear that Carl intends to translate the Bible into
Shavian. A modern translation I hope. The King James has some funny
pronunciations.

I also think that this is an ambitious but very worthwhile goal.
I think one of the first few steps to exposing the English-speaking
world to the benefits of Shavian, is to bring out Shavian books, and
then to do all the other stuff it takes to give further exposure to
Shavian Alphabet.
We have to do what we can to propogate and deseminate our favorite
writing system.
Hopefully revised enough to understandable by our American cousins.

Regards, Paul V.

--- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> Concerning the role Shavian should play to literate English-
speaking world: As for me I am highly literate with Traditional
Orthography (T.O.). However, I prefer Shavian over T.O.. I would
like to be just as literate with Shavian as with T.O., though there
is not enough literature to become super-literate at reading
Shavian. So, what I would like to do is transliterate existing texts
into Shavian, once I get an internet-ready computer. And I will
first transliterate the "Standard Works" of my Church. Then I will
transliterate just about anything else the Shavian Community would
like to see into Shavian.
>
> Though, that is ambitious it is a worthwhile goal. I think one of
the first few steps to exposing the English-speaking world to the
benefits of Shavian, to bring out Shavian books, then the other stuff
it takes to give further exposure to Shavian. And that is what I
hope we can do to publicize our favorite writing system -- Shavian.
>
> best regards,
>
> Carl /kRal/
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.




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On Friday, Feb 27, 2004, at 13:51 US/Eastern, paul vandenbrink wrote:

>
> So, what I hoping is that someone will build a program to
> transliterate existing texts into Shavian, so I can more practice.
> It would be nice if their was a newspaper, even.
>
>
I have a program that I use to do my translations. However, it has
not yet been updated to the proper Unicode points, and the dictionary
of words it uses has only about 8000 words in it. As I translate more
texts, its dictionary grows. However, I have been unable to dedicate
any time to doing things (like finishing the Hans Christian Andersen
translations) for some time. I am hoping to be able to do something
about this in the summer though. You can always try to read some of
the works I have on my web site where the two most lengthy ones are the
Legend of Sleepy Hollow and A Christmas Carol.

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86




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Hi Paul and others,

I'm glad you agree with me on certain points of interest. Yes, I plan on transliterating the Holy Bible (Old and New Testament). As for which version I will first do the King James Version. Then my favorite alternate translation th New International Version. In my last posting I mentioned the "Standard Works" of my Church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) These include, the Holy Bible (King James Version), the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. [Ethan has a website concerning a transliteration of the King James Bible into Shavian]

However, I encourage all Shavian Enthusiast, not of my faith (if ambitious enough) to transliterate their Sacred Texts, to broaden the horizion of Shavian.

And just like you Paul, I write with Shavian in my journal. I think my role to the Shavian Community should be to transliterate books into Shavian. I hope other Shavian Enthusiasts will take the opportunaty to make academic contributions to Shavian, so that Shavian will no longer be a "dead" alphabet, but have just as much vitality as T.O..

Best Regards,

Carl /kRal/

paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@...> wrote:

Hi Carl & the group
As for the role the Shavian Alphabet should play to literate English-
speaking world:
I find literacy even with the Traditional Orthography (T.O.) to a
constant challenge to stay up to date.
That's why I prefer Shavian over the T.O.
There isn't the struggle to pick up the correct pronunciation.
A lot of new English word are borrowed from french and have a variant
pronunciation (i.e. Ouevre)
I would like to be able to read as fast with Shavian as with T.O.,
though there is not enough literature to become super-swift at
reading Shavian.

So, what I hoping is that someone will build a program to
transliterate existing texts into Shavian, so I can more practice.
It would be nice if their was a newspaper, even.

I am glad to hear that Carl intends to translate the Bible into
Shavian. A modern translation I hope. The King James has some funny
pronunciations.

I also think that this is an ambitious but very worthwhile goal.
I think one of the first few steps to exposing the English-speaking
world to the benefits of Shavian, is to bring out Shavian books, and
then to do all the other stuff it takes to give further exposure to
Shavian Alphabet.
We have to do what we can to propogate and deseminate our favorite
writing system.
Hopefully revised enough to understandable by our American cousins.

Regards, Paul V.

--- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> Concerning the role Shavian should play to literate English-
speaking world: As for me I am highly literate with Traditional
Orthography (T.O.). However, I prefer Shavian over T.O.. I would
like to be just as literate with Shavian as with T.O., though there
is not enough literature to become super-literate at reading
Shavian. So, what I would like to do is transliterate existing texts
into Shavian, once I get an internet-ready computer. And I will
first transliterate the "Standard Works" of my Church. Then I will
transliterate just about anything else the Shavian Community would
like to see into Shavian.
>
> Though, that is ambitious it is a worthwhile goal. I think one of
the first few steps to exposing the English-speaking world to the
benefits of Shavian, to bring out Shavian books, then the other stuff
it takes to give further exposure to Shavian. And that is what I
hope we can do to publicize our favorite writing system -- Shavian.
>
> best regards,
>
> Carl /kRal/
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.



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Hi Scott,

I'm glad to hear you're busy transliterating on the internet.

Thanks for supporting, Shavian. :)

Carl /kRal/

Scott Harrison <scott@...> wrote:


On Friday, Feb 27, 2004, at 13:51 US/Eastern, paul vandenbrink wrote:

>
> So, what I hoping is that someone will build a program to
> transliterate existing texts into Shavian, so I can more practice.
> It would be nice if their was a newspaper, even.
>
>
I have a program that I use to do my translations. However, it has
not yet been updated to the proper Unicode points, and the dictionary
of words it uses has only about 8000 words in it. As I translate more
texts, its dictionary grows. However, I have been unable to dedicate
any time to doing things (like finishing the Hans Christian Andersen
translations) for some time. I am hoping to be able to do something
about this in the summer though. You can always try to read some of
the works I have on my web site where the two most lengthy ones are the
Legend of Sleepy Hollow and A Christmas Carol.

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86



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Awhile back someone was asking if it was possible to make a Shavian-like alphabet just as long as the T.O. alphabet. In reply I say it's possible though of low grade quality.

I figure it out last night. It totaled 22 letters. With the corresponding letters of:

a - ash, b - bib, d - dead, e - egg, f - fee, g - gag, h - ha-ha, i - if, k - kick, l - loll, m - mime, n - nun, o - on, p - peep, r - roar, s - so, t - tot, u - up, v - vow, w - woe, y - yea, z - zoo.

The reason I consider this low grade is because it is inadequate for English and would require a basic spelling reform to make sense of English. The Original Shavian and Quickscript are however far more superior to this glorified spelling reform, for English.

Anyways, in fun and theory, I rest my case,

Best Regards,

Carl /kRal/

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The King James Version is very poetical, and has a relatively small
stack of words.
There are few minor disagreements on small number of words in the
older translations. Supposedly, the new translations are closer to
the original meaning. Anyway,
I suppose I could transliterate a modern translation of the first 5
books of Moses, Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings.
That covers the important stuff from my religous point of view.

Regards, Paul Vandenbrink
______________________-attached-____________________________
--- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
> Hi Paul and others,
>
> I'm glad you agree with me on certain points of interest. Yes, I
plan on transliterating the Holy Bible (Old and New Testament). As
for which version I will first do the King James Version. Then my
favorite alternate translation th New International Version. In my
last posting I mentioned the "Standard Works" of my Church (The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) These include, the
Holy Bible (King James Version), the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine
and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. [Ethan has a website
concerning a transliteration of the King James Bible into Shavian]
>
> However, I encourage all Shavian Enthusiast, not of my faith (if
ambitious enough) to transliterate their Sacred Texts, to broaden
the horizion of Shavian.
>
> And just like you Paul, I write with Shavian in my journal. I
think my role to the Shavian Community should be to transliterate
books into Shavian. I hope other Shavian Enthusiasts will take the
opportunaty to make academic contributions to Shavian, so that
Shavian will no longer be a "dead" alphabet, but have just as much
vitality as T.O..
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Carl /kRal/
>
> paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> Hi Carl & the group
> As for the role the Shavian Alphabet should play to literate
English-
> speaking world:
> I find literacy even with the Traditional Orthography (T.O.) to a
> constant challenge to stay up to date.
> That's why I prefer Shavian over the T.O.
> There isn't the struggle to pick up the correct pronunciation.
> A lot of new English word are borrowed from french and have a
variant
> pronunciation (i.e. Ouevre)
> I would like to be able to read as fast with Shavian as with T.O.,
> though there is not enough literature to become super-swift at
> reading Shavian.
>
> So, what I hoping is that someone will build a program to
> transliterate existing texts into Shavian, so I can more practice.
> It would be nice if their was a newspaper, even.
>
> I am glad to hear that Carl intends to translate the Bible into
> Shavian. A modern translation I hope. The King James has some
funny
> pronunciations.
>
> I also think that this is an ambitious but very worthwhile goal.
> I think one of the first few steps to exposing the English-
speaking
> world to the benefits of Shavian, is to bring out Shavian books,
and
> then to do all the other stuff it takes to give further exposure
to
> Shavian Alphabet.
> We have to do what we can to propogate and deseminate our favorite
> writing system.
> Hopefully revised enough to understandable by our American
cousins.
>
> Regards, Paul V.
>
> --- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...>
wrote:
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > Concerning the role Shavian should play to literate English-
> speaking world: As for me I am highly literate with Traditional
> Orthography (T.O.). However, I prefer Shavian over T.O.. I would
> like to be just as literate with Shavian as with T.O., though
there
> is not enough literature to become super-literate at reading
> Shavian. So, what I would like to do is transliterate existing
texts
> into Shavian, once I get an internet-ready computer. And I will
> first transliterate the "Standard Works" of my Church. Then I
will
> transliterate just about anything else the Shavian Community would
> like to see into Shavian.
> >
> > Though, that is ambitious it is a worthwhile goal. I think one
of
> the first few steps to exposing the English-speaking world to the
> benefits of Shavian, to bring out Shavian books, then the other
stuff
> it takes to give further exposure to Shavian. And that is what I
> hope we can do to publicize our favorite writing system -- Shavian.
> >
> > best regards,
> >
> > Carl /kRal/
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shavian-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail



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Hi Karl :0

It wouldn't be that simple.
What about "J". And how would you indicate all the additional
English vowel sounds. I suppose you could use "c", for one of the
other vowel sounds. It looks small like the other vowel letters.
Also,You could use a period within the word to indicate the Adu or
Schwa sound.
Regards, Paul V.

________________attached__________________________

--- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
> Awhile back someone was asking if it was possible to make a
Shavian-like alphabet just as long as the T.O. alphabet. In reply I
say it's possible though of low grade quality.
>
> I figure it out last night. It totaled 22 letters. With the
corresponding letters of:
>
> a - ash, b - bib, d - dead, e - egg, f - fee, g - gag, h - ha-ha,
i - if, k - kick, l - loll, m - mime, n - nun, o - on, p - peep, r -
roar, s - so, t - tot, u - up, v - vow, w - woe, y - yea, z - zoo.
>
> The reason I consider this low grade is because it is inadequate
for English and would require a basic spelling reform to make sense
of English. The Original Shavian and Quickscript are however far
more superior to this glorified spelling reform, for English.
>
> Anyways, in fun and theory, I rest my case,
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Carl /kRal/
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail



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Carl /kRal/ wants to transliterate the English Bible and the Book of Mormon into Shavian.

A point that hasn't been addressed here: you have to transliterate the very large number (look at Chronicles) of proper names into Shavian, using their received English pronunciations. I would suggesting following the traditional diacritical mark-up in a "pronouncing King James" Bible (does this venerable font have a name? I've never seen one).

Do YOU know how to pronounce Chederlaomer or Jehovah-Jireh?

As this Gentile understands it, the proper names in the Book of Mormon all possess received pronunciations which are recorded in some editions - I wouldn't tackle "Ether" (not the anesthetic, pace Mark Twain) or "Coriantumr" without help!

Bob Richmond
Knoxville, Tennessee and Gastonia, North Carolina

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RSRICHMOND@aol.com wrote:
> Carl /kRal/ wants to transliterate the English Bible and the Book of
> Mormon into Shavian.
>
> A point that hasn't been addressed here: you have to transliterate the
> very large number (look at Chronicles) of proper names into Shavian,
> using their received English pronunciations. I would suggesting
> following the traditional diacritical mark-up in a "pronouncing King
> James" Bible (does this venerable font have a name? I've never seen one).
>
> Do YOU know how to pronounce Chederlaomer or Jehovah-Jireh?
>
> As this Gentile understands it, the proper names in the Book of Mormon
> all possess received pronunciations which are recorded in some editions
> - I wouldn't tackle "Ether" (not the anesthetic, pace Mark Twain) or
> "Coriantumr" without help!
>
> Bob Richmond
> Knoxville, Tennessee and Gastonia, North Carolina

It's been a problem for me, as I've been working on that very thing, to
figure out what the pronunciation of many of the proper names should be.
Many of the names are well known, such as Adam (Adam, ·????????),
Moses (mOzas, ·??????????), Abraham (EbrahAm, ·??????????????), etc.
But what to do with names like:
Elizur
Shedeur
Shelumiel
Zurishaddai
Nahshon
Amminadab
Nethaneel
Zuar
Zebulun
Eliab
Helon
Ephraim
Elishama
Ammihud
Manasseh
Gamaliel
Pedahzur
Abidan
Gideoni
Ahiezer
Ammishaddai
Pagiel
Ocran
Eliasaph
Deuel
Naphtali
Ahira
Enan

And those are just a few of the names I found in Numbers chapter 1!
There are many chapters which contain mostly names, many of them longer
and more involved than those!

The reason I haven't yet decided is because there are several ways to go
about it. I could use the diacritically marked names found in some
editions of the AV, or I could use the pronunciation most preachers use
for many of the names, or I could use my Strongs concordance, which
gives the traditional ancient Hebrew and Koine (kqnE, ·????????) Greek
pronunciations, or I could just leave them in TO and let the reader
decide! Should I choose one method, use a combination of methods, or
more than one method for each word?

Right now my main concern, though, is in getting software set up to
achieve the best results in the least amount of time. The Bible is very
large, and transliterating it in html by hand is slow, tedious work and
error prone. So I've decided to use software to assist me in the effort.

You can see what I've done so far at
http://www.30below.com/~ethanl/shavbible/
It's only a brief sample, it's out of date technically (the markup and
styling need to be redone to make it comply with web standards) and it
needs to be done in UTF-8 instead of ASCII. I was just learning about
Shavian and web page design when I did most of it, and both my spelling
and my design need some improvement!

--
·???????? - Ethan




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