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From: Ryan Tarpine
Date: 2004-04-20 02:02:00 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: getting hold of Shaw's Androcles and the Lion

Toggle Shavian

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, Paige Gabhart wrote:

> I saw your response after I sent my e-mail. I have no idea who owns the
> copyright now. Every time I think about getting a copy of this book, I
> do an internet search but I have never found a copy for sale. I guess I
> am not persistent enough as I don't continue looking over an extended
> period of time.. The last time I looked for a copy was a couple of
> years ago I believe.

Hello! I'm generally a lurker here but I should speak up.

First of all, how does the copyright work when it comes to two alphabets?
According to Project Gutenberg, Androcles is freely distributable now:

http://www.gutenberg.net/etext/4003

Is it possible that the original text is free but the Shavian
transcription isn't?

Secondly, it looks like there are a few more copies at the same place
where I bought mine last year: <http://www.abebooks.com>
Unfortunately the search there doesn't work well; doing a search for
"androcles lion shaw alphabet" won't return any results while "androcles
lion shaw" will return some books that have "alphabet" in the title
(Those being the ones you want ;-). The cheapest seems to be $15.00.

Ryan

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From: Ph. D.
Date: 2004-04-20 04:31:53 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: getting hold of Shaw's Androcles and the Lion

Toggle Shavian

There was a rare book that I wanted for years. I did a search
on bookfinder.com once per month for four years. It finally
showed up, so now I have it. Keep trying.

--Ph. D.

----- Originala Mesagxo -----
De: Paige Gabhart <mailto:pgabhart@...>
Al: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sendita: Lundon, 19an de aprilo 2004, 7:45 ptm
Temo: Re: [shavian] Re: getting hold of Shaw's Androcles and the Lion

Paul:

I saw your response after I sent my e-mail. I have no idea who owns the copyright now. Every time I think about getting a copy of this book, I do an internet search but I have never found a copy for sale. I guess I am not persistent enough as I don't continue looking over an extended period of time.. The last time I looked for a copy was a couple of years ago I believe.

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From: Ph. D.
Date: 2004-04-20 04:31:53 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: getting hold of Shaw's Androcles and the Lion

Toggle Shavian

From: Ph. D.
Date: 2004-04-20 05:03:21 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: getting hold of Shaw's Androcles and the Lion

Toggle Shavian

If you go to http://www.bookfinder.com and put in "Androcles Shaw"
as the title, there are several copies available from $15 to $75.

----- Original Message -----
From: Paige Gabhart <mailto:pgabhart@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: getting hold of Shaw's Androcles and the Lion

Paul:

I saw your response after I sent my e-mail. I have no idea who owns the copyright now. Every time I think about getting a copy of this book, I do an internet search but I have never found a copy for sale. I guess I am not persistent enough as I don't continue looking over an extended period of time.. The last time I looked for a copy was a couple of years ago I believe.

________________________________

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From: Ethan
Date: 2004-04-20 06:30:33 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: getting hold of Shaw's Androcles and the Lion

Toggle Shavian

Ph. D. wrote:
> If you go to http://www.bookfinder.com and put in "Androcles Shaw"
> as the title, there are several copies available from $15 to $75.

Don't forget to make sure you are getting the Shavian alphabet version.
Androcles has been published more than once, and while I am not
familiar with the publishing history of the story, I would surmise that
there may be more TO-only versions floating around than Shavian alphabet
ones.

--
·???????? - Ethan

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From: paul vandenbrink
Date: 2004-04-20 16:31:52 #
Subject: [shavian] Shaw's Book - Androcles and the Lion

Toggle Shavian

Hi Philip

Thanks for hunting down a few more copies.
Most of the seem to be around $60 USD, so I am glad I got such a good
deal.
It is amazing to think that there were so many copies distributed
free to Libraries all over the English speaking world. There are
probably a lot of copies archived in various Libraries, where at
least you would be able to borrow and even photocopy the book.

"London Penguin 1962 Hardcover book, with dustjacket,
stated "presentation copy and furnished free of charge,
under Shaw's Will by the Public trustee, London"

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. I suspect the variety of Alphabet used (T.O., Shaw), to print
the book wouldn't affect the original copyrights involved for the
story Androcles and the Lion.

The Additional written material explaining the Development and Use of
tha Alphabet might still be under Copyright, but I doubt if it would
be a major hindrance.
That part of the Book should probably be expanded and re-written to
reflect the changes in Pronunciation and in conception in the last 50
years.
Might be a problem of plagarism, but if we report on our source
material properly, I am certain we could produce a new edition.
It is a wild idea.
But one I think that the group should pursue.
_________________attached__________________________________________

--- In shavian@..., "Ph. D." <phild@a...> wrote:
> If you go to http://www.bookfinder.com and put in "Androcles Shaw"
> as the title, there are several copies available from $15 to $75.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paige Gabhart
> To: shavian@...
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: getting hold of Shaw's Androcles and
the Lion
>
>
> Paul:
>
> I saw your response after I sent my e-mail. I have no idea who
owns the copyright now. Every time I think about getting a copy of
this book, I do an internet search but I have never found a copy for
sale. I guess I am not persistent enough as I don't continue looking
over an extended period of time.. The last time I looked for a copy
was a couple of years ago I believe.

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From: RSRICHMOND@aol.com
Date: 2004-04-20 17:18:19 #
Subject: [shavian] Shaw's Book - Androcles and the Lion

Toggle Shavian

I think reprinting the book is a wonderful idea.

Something we've never gone into: what became of the types founded by the firm of Steven Austin, probably the most prestigious founder of foreign language and phonetic types fifty years ago? Was Linotype or Monotype "hot type" set, or one of the then-new photographic processes? Do Stephen Austin's printing plates or films still exist? (Stephen Austin actually printed the book.) Would Penguin Books know the answer to any of these questions?

We could come up with enough additional material to double the size of the book, I imagine - a biography of Kingsley Read with an account of Quickscript, some information about Stephen Austin (if there is any), the Web and Unicode, our debates about orthographic standards - all kinds of stuff that would need to be in there - all of it presented both in T.O. and in Shavian, of course.

Bob Richmond

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From: RSRICHMOND@aol.com
Date: 2004-04-20 17:31:24 #
Subject: [shavian] Shaw's Book - Androcles and the Lion

Toggle Shavian

Stephen Austin is still around, in the U.K., but seems to be in a somewhat different area of the printing business.
http://www.stephenaustin.co.uk/index.php

Here's a memoir by Kingsley Read:
http://www.spellingsociety.org/journals/j23/shawread.html

and another link from that page
http://www.spellingsociety.org/pubs/newsletters/n1.html#shaw2

Bob Richmond

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From: Ph. D.
Date: 2004-04-20 21:19:46 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Shaw's Book - Androcles and the Lion

Toggle Shavian

_Androcles_ was printed letterpress (from a relief surface).
The type was set on the Monotype casting machine. Normally
Monotype matrices (the molds for casting type) are punched,
but for one-of-a-kind fonts they would have been engraved.

Stephen Austin do longer does letterpress. They disposed
of all their letterpress equipment several years ago. The
font of matrices for the Shaw alphabet was donated to the
National Printing Trust (I think that's what it's called) in
England.

I have a lot of letterpress equipment which I use for fun. Back
around 1980 I wrote to Stephen Austin and asked them to
cast some Shaw type and sell it to me. They turned me down,
but offered to print items in Shaw for me. I still have hope that
someday when the National Printing Trust gets more organized,
they will be able to cast some Shaw type for sale. (In the USA,
the Smithsonian has occasionally allowed small castings of
rare types from its collection of matrices.)

--Philllip D.

----- Original Message -----
From: RSRICHMOND@aol.com <mailto:RSRICHMOND@aol.com>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 12:30 PM
Subject: [shavian] Shaw's Book - Androcles and the Lion

Stephen Austin is still around, in the U.K., but seems to be in a somewhat different area of the printing business.
http://www.stephenaustin.co.uk/index.php

Here's a memoir by Kingsley Read:
http://www.spellingsociety.org/journals/j23/shawread.html

and another link from that page
http://www.spellingsociety.org/pubs/newsletters/n1.html#shaw2

Bob Richmond

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From: Paul Vandenbrink
Date: 2004-04-22 23:45:23 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] getting hold of Shaw's Androcles and the Lion

Toggle Shavian

Hi Bob

Thanks, again
I just received your spare copy of the Book, Androcles and the Lion (Parallel Text).
It is in great shape, Black with Silver Engraving, and smaller than I expected. The pages look fresh with no signs of age. A nice clean edition. I guess it just proves again that good things come in small packages. It is amazing to think it was donated to a Library by the Public Trustee some 40 odd years ago.
I will send of a money order $20 USD off tomorrow and hopefully you will receive it early next week.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Thanks for your inscription.
P.P.S. It is so nice to have a little piece of the history of the Shavian Alphabet.

At 02:45 PM 4/18/04, you wrote:

Just so happens I have a spare copy of the Shaw alphabet Androcles and the Lion, the hardbound library edition, on considerably better paper than the paperback. The binding is in good condition. There are some handwritten notes on the flyleaves and on the blank page 6, but the text pages are unmarked except for a couple of library stamps in the margins. I bought this book over the Web several years ago from a dealer in Ireland, then found a second copy in a used book store, a recent discard from the public library of a rural county in Missouri.

First serious offer takes it. US $20 (about what I paid for it), I'll pay postage. I'll trust you to send me a check or money order after you receive the book. I need to get the book into the mail by early Tuesday, April 20th.

Bob Richmond
********************
Robert S. Richmond
344 Seven Oaks Drive
Knoxville TN 37922-3411 USA

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