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Star Raven wrote:
>>I suggest that first we seperate off the following 4 Shaw Letters as
>>
>>either redundant or not used at all in the phonetic transcription of
>>American accented English. They would be learned later. After we get
>>
>>our student familar with Basic English sounds.
>>Ah (Redundant with On)
>>Ian (Unused)
>>Yew (Redundant with Yea+Ooze )
>>Urge (Redundant with Array)
>>Note these more difficult letters are all in the second section.
>>Without them, the second section would then be just 15 Plain Vowels
>>and the 5 Rhotic Vowels (Are, Or, Air, Array, Ear). That a lot
>>easier to handle since the expanded set of Vowel Letters is a big
>>Hurdle for new learners.
>>
>
>
> Paul, Dead horse. Really dead horse. Desicated really dead horse...
> with maggots.
>
> Is it really time to beat it yet again?
> --Star

This horse has been dead so long it's nothing but bones... with whip
marks worn in them!

--
·???????? - Ethan
My name in Shavian and Latin text


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--- Ethan <ethanl@...> wrote:

> >>
> >
> >
> > Paul, Dead horse. Really dead horse. Desicated really dead horse...
> > with maggots.
> >
> > Is it really time to beat it yet again?
> > --Star
>
> This horse has been dead so long it's nothing but bones... with whip
> marks worn in them!
>
> --
> B7p?0p?p?)p?/ - Ethan
> My name in Shavian and Latin text
>

You got it, Ethan...

Paul, I thought you knew better ;)

--Star

=====
Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
--Lorne's Mom (from Angel)



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Actuallly, it seems to me that he was bringing up the valid point that it takes a while
to learn Shavian. The subset dead-horse has been beaten countless times, but the
learning-time dead-horse is still waiting for a few more.

That said, I think Ian and Yew should simply be considered ligatures and taught as
soon as their component letters have been taught. They shouldn't even be listed
among letters to be taught. And I think the basic vowels should definitely be taught
first. That is Ash, Ado, On and Egg. Read made those the simplest because they're
the most common. Then add Up as a stressed variant of Ash and then the strong
vowels and diphthongs.

--- In shavian@..., Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...> wrote:

> You got it, Ethan...
>
> Paul, I thought you knew better ;)
>
> --Star
>
> =====
> Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
> --Lorne's Mom (from Angel)



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Yes, I've created yet another Shavian font. This one is called Centurion and can be
found in the files at the group site. I'm also working on another one called Spintho. I
hope to have that one up before too long.



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Interesting point, Joe. I do agree that we could use a better way of
learning it, and I liked what I read, only it seemed to me that the
trouble makers were left out rather than taught last.

--Star

--- Joe <allegrox_2000@...> wrote:

> Actuallly, it seems to me that he was bringing up the valid point
> that it takes a while
> to learn Shavian. The subset dead-horse has been beaten countless
> times, but the
> learning-time dead-horse is still waiting for a few more.
>
> That said, I think Ian and Yew should simply be considered ligatures
> and taught as
> soon as their component letters have been taught. They shouldn't
> even be listed
> among letters to be taught. And I think the basic vowels should
> definitely be taught
> first. That is Ash, Ado, On and Egg. Read made those the simplest
> because they're
> the most common. Then add Up as a stressed variant of Ash and then
> the strong
> vowels and diphthongs.
>
> --- In shavian@..., Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...>
> wrote:
>
> > You got it, Ethan...
> >
> > Paul, I thought you knew better ;)
> >
> > --Star
> >
> > =====
> > Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
> > --Lorne's Mom (from Angel)
>
>


=====
Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
--Lorne's Mom (from Angel)



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Interesting point, Joe. I do agree that we could use a better way of
learning it, and I liked what I read, only it seemed to me that the
trouble makers were left out rather than taught last.

--Star

--- Joe <allegrox_2000@...> wrote:

> Actuallly, it seems to me that he was bringing up the valid point
> that it takes a while
> to learn Shavian. The subset dead-horse has been beaten countless
> times, but the
> learning-time dead-horse is still waiting for a few more.
>
> That said, I think Ian and Yew should simply be considered ligatures
> and taught as
> soon as their component letters have been taught. They shouldn't
> even be listed
> among letters to be taught. And I think the basic vowels should
> definitely be taught
> first. That is Ash, Ado, On and Egg. Read made those the simplest
> because they're
> the most common. Then add Up as a stressed variant of Ash and then
> the strong
> vowels and diphthongs.
>
> --- In shavian@..., Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...>
> wrote:
>
> > You got it, Ethan...
> >
> > Paul, I thought you knew better ;)
> >
> > --Star
> >
> > =====
> > Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
> > --Lorne's Mom (from Angel)
>
>


=====
Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
--Lorne's Mom (from Angel)



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That's always a problem. Subsets are okay as long as the people using them can read
and write standard Shavian when necessary. Then that brings up the issue of
standard spelling, which is a dead horse that could use some more beating another
day.

--- In shavian@..., Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...> wrote:
> Interesting point, Joe. I do agree that we could use a better way of
> learning it, and I liked what I read, only it seemed to me that the
> trouble makers were left out rather than taught last.
>
> --Star



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I had a feeling the vets were still charging up the defibrullator on
that one.

--Star

--- Joe <allegrox_2000@...> wrote:

> That's always a problem. Subsets are okay as long as the people
> using them can read
> and write standard Shavian when necessary. Then that brings up the
> issue of
> standard spelling, which is a dead horse that could use some more
> beating another
> day.
>
> --- In shavian@..., Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...>
> wrote:
> > Interesting point, Joe. I do agree that we could use a better way
> of
> > learning it, and I liked what I read, only it seemed to me that the
> > trouble makers were left out rather than taught last.
> >
> > --Star
>
>


=====
Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
--Lorne's Mom (from Angel)



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Thanks, Joe
Thanks for explaining the benefits of a phased teaching plan for the
vowel letters.
I guess the main point that I am making is that it should be easier
to learn the Shavian Alphabet, if you don't let yourself get bogged
down in the less commonly used letters.
We need to teach a few people the Shaw Alphabet to get ourselves out
of a rut. Anyone else had any luck teaching?

Regards, Paul V.
________________attached____________________________

--- In shavian@..., "Joe" <allegrox_2000@y...> wrote:
> Actuallly, it seems to me that he was bringing up the valid point
that it takes a while
> to learn Shavian. The subset dead-horse has been beaten countless
times, but the
> learning-time dead-horse is still waiting for a few more.
>
> That said, I think Ian and Yew should simply be considered
ligatures and taught as
> soon as their component letters have been taught. They shouldn't
even be listed
> among letters to be taught. And I think the basic vowels should
definitely be taught
> first. That is Ash, Ado, On and Egg. Read made those the
simplest because they're
> the most common. Then add Up as a stressed variant of Ash and
then the strong
> vowels and diphthongs.
>
> --- In shavian@..., Star Raven
<celestraof12worlds@y...> wrote:
>
> > You got it, Ethan...
> >
> > Paul, I thought you knew better ;)
> >
> > --Star
> >
> > =====
> > Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
> > --Lorne's Mom (from Angel)



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paul vandenbrink wrote:
> Thanks, Joe
> Thanks for explaining the benefits of a phased teaching plan for the
> vowel letters.
> I guess the main point that I am making is that it should be easier
> to learn the Shavian Alphabet, if you don't let yourself get bogged
> down in the less commonly used letters.
> We need to teach a few people the Shaw Alphabet to get ourselves out
> of a rut. Anyone else had any luck teaching?
>
> Regards, Paul V.

I didn't think it was difficult to learn at all. I have taught other
people to read Shavian, once again with little difficulty. I never used
a subset, always the full compliment of 48 letters. For teaching I
simply used interesting text written in Shavian, with a key-card to find
the sounds of the letters.

--
·???????? - Ethan


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