Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

OK, since you ask... I hadn't done any more to it since that last posting. I
got pulled away from it by other pressing tasks.

Download the following zip archive to see how my layout is already (only for
Windows XP users):

http://mixsynth.fearfulsilence.com/shavian/demo.zip

To install the layout:
1) Inside the 'ShavianB' folder in the archive, run the 'ShavianB.exe' file
to install
2) Open the language bar on the taskbar; right-click the taskbar, 'toolbars'
menu -> language bar
3) Right-click language bar, select 'settings'
4) Under the default language (normally English (United Kingdom) or English
(United States)), click where it says 'Keyboard', and click the 'Add' button
to the right.
5) Click the option button marked 'Keyboard layout/IME', and from the
drop-down below select "Shaw Alphabet (Birkenhead)".
6) Click all the 'OK' buttons to save the changes... you're now able to
select the Shavian layout from the language bar in most applications -
provided you've got a Shavian Unicode font installed and selected.

- Freq Stats.xls = Excel spreadsheet containing the frequency analysis
- Shaw Dvorak.doc = Word document listing the positions of characters on
keyboard keys
(I'll convert the above two to HTML if nobody's able to read them)
- ShavianB.klc = Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator source file, for anybody
who wants to install that software and have a play with the layout
themselves. Google it to find the download link
- Vowel-Consonant distribution (The Five Orange Pips).html = A sample
document showing the hand-alternating and load-balancing benefits of vowels
on left side of keyboard and consonants on right side

Hope the above instructions are adequate and that you can open all the
needed files. I'll say again - the layout isn't finished! I need suggestions
from anyone who tests the layout so send em over if you have any.

Good luck,
Hugh B


----- Original Message -----
From: "mcbroom1946" <mcbroom1946@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 5:54 PM
Subject: [shavian] Re: New Keyboard Layouts Uploaded


>I - for one - am looking forward to your frequncy analysis. How is it
>coming?
> --
>
> - In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...> wrote:
>> Urrr... d'oh...
>>
>> I've just devised one based upon Dvorak, putting all the vowels along the
>> left side (?!?) Took weeks to do as well! Used a 120,000 character
> frequency
>> analysis.
>>
>> I hadn't announced its creation yet. I was hoping to find a picture of
>> the
>> Shavian typewriter keyboard first to see how my layout compared with it!
>>
>> Anyway I'll check out yours and see how it is seeing as you posted
>> first...
>>
>> Hugh B
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "feral_primate" <feral_primate@y...>
>> To: <shavian@...>
>> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 5:15 AM
>> Subject: [shavian] Re: New Keyboard Layouts Uploaded
>>
>>
>> > --- In shavian@..., "feral_primate" <feral_primate@y...>
>> > wrote:
>> >> I have devised a keyboard layout for Shavian that I believe is
>> > more
>> >> efficient than the current QWERTY-based layout. Mine is based on
>> >> Dvorak, but many punctuation keys have been replaced by Shavian
>> >> letters and the entire left side of the keyboard is composed of
>> >> vowels. The arrangement of these vowels was based on some phoneme
>> >> frequency charts I found, putting the most frequent phonemes in
>> >> reach. Having had much experience with Dvorak, I found this layout
>> >> easy to pick up, although I would like feedback from others
>> >> regarding this layout.
>> >>
>> >> It is available in two formats: one for viewing the majority of
>> >> current Shavian fonts that just replace ASCII letters with Shavian
>> >> letters and one that is compatible with Unicode fonts that have
>> >> Shavian letters at the proper code points.
>> >
>> > I forgot to add, they are in the "datafiles" folder in the Files
>> > section, in a file called shavorak.zip
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



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On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 00:01:28 -0400, Ethan <ethanl@...> wrote:
> Actually, it's not English, but Latin or "traditional" orthography
> (hereafter TO) which he calls English. It's not a language but an alphabet.

*nods* This seems confuse people easily.

My wife occasionally puts "Shavian" among the languages which I can
speak, and I have to re-explain that it's not a language, but an
alphabet suited for writing English.

(I suppose it could be used for other languages as well, but the
phonemic makeup of English is what it was designed for.)

Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>


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I found it on the internet under the name, The Life and Death of
Invented Alphabets", at
http://www.usu.edu/anthro/origins_of_writing/invented_alphabets/
then click on option 2 for shavian
Regards, Paul V.


--- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
wrote:
> Before I read this: whose analysis is it? Have you got a URL?
>
> Hugh B
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@s...>
> To: <shavian@...>
> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:28 PM
> Subject: [shavian] Reasons to admire the Shaw Alphabet
>
>
> >I read the following review of the Shaw Alphabet, and I have a
> > number of quibbles about his analysis of the Shaw Alphabet, but
I
> > will let the other comment first.
> >




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I found it on the internet under the name, The Life and Death of
Invented Alphabets", at
http://www.usu.edu/anthro/origins_of_writing/invented_alphabets/
then click on option 2 for shavian
Regards, Paul V.


--- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
wrote:
> Before I read this: whose analysis is it? Have you got a URL?
>
> Hugh B
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@s...>
> To: <shavian@...>
> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:28 PM
> Subject: [shavian] Reasons to admire the Shaw Alphabet
>
>
> >I read the following review of the Shaw Alphabet, and I have a
> > number of quibbles about his analysis of the Shaw Alphabet, but
I
> > will let the other comment first.
> >




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Interesting stuff... shame he copied my website's alphabet chart and didn't
credit me... never mind :-P

We can't really criticise the author of this webpage for errors in the text,
because the section on the Shavian alphabet is a quote from one Douglas
Allen New of Utah State University (written 1985).

Hugh B


----- Original Message -----
From: "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 5:48 PM
Subject: [shavian] More Reasons to admire the Shaw Alphabet


>I found it on the internet under the name, The Life and Death of
> Invented Alphabets", at
> http://www.usu.edu/anthro/origins_of_writing/invented_alphabets/
> then click on option 2 for shavian
> Regards, Paul V.
>
>
> --- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
> wrote:
>> Before I read this: whose analysis is it? Have you got a URL?
>>
>> Hugh B
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@s...>
>> To: <shavian@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:28 PM
>> Subject: [shavian] Reasons to admire the Shaw Alphabet
>>
>>
>> >I read the following review of the Shaw Alphabet, and I have a
>> > number of quibbles about his analysis of the Shaw Alphabet, but
> I
>> > will let the other comment first.
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



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Interesting stuff... shame he copied my website's alphabet chart and didn't
credit me... never mind :-P

We can't really criticise the author of this webpage for errors in the text,
because the section on the Shavian alphabet is a quote from one Douglas
Allen New of Utah State University (written 1985).

Hugh B


----- Original Message -----
From: "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 5:48 PM
Subject: [shavian] More Reasons to admire the Shaw Alphabet


>I found it on the internet under the name, The Life and Death of
> Invented Alphabets", at
> http://www.usu.edu/anthro/origins_of_writing/invented_alphabets/
> then click on option 2 for shavian
> Regards, Paul V.
>
>
> --- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
> wrote:
>> Before I read this: whose analysis is it? Have you got a URL?
>>
>> Hugh B
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@s...>
>> To: <shavian@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:28 PM
>> Subject: [shavian] Reasons to admire the Shaw Alphabet
>>
>>
>> >I read the following review of the Shaw Alphabet, and I have a
>> > number of quibbles about his analysis of the Shaw Alphabet, but
> I
>> > will let the other comment first.
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



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Hi Ethan
You certainly count as one of the others.
Feel free to comment.

While I agree with most of your comments,
I wholeheartedly agree with your point that:
"The goal of Shavian has never been to replace English, but to spell
it! Assuming, though, that the author meant TO rather than English,
the goal has always been to have Shavian accepted as an alternative
to TO, rather than to replace it. There will always be a place for
TO (The Current English Spelling system)."

The Traditional orthography (minus those confusing British/American
spelling variations) has many advantages and a huge body of work. It
creates many
more distinct words than there are are distinct pronunciations. It is
useful to have a wider selection of words for writing.
Through an intense effort taking well over 20 years,
I personally have mastered the T.O. for Literary English.
But for the vast majority of English speakers who have not yet
mastered the T.O.,the Shavian Alphabet provides an effective
alternative that can be learned in a day, and still grants you the
full power of being an effectively literate person and scribe.

When you think of the sheer amount of time that it takes to develop
legiable penmanship in the average English student, and then realize
that is just one of a number of T.O. writing skills needed, the
effort needed to become literate in T.O. boogles the mind.

The Shavian Alphabet provides an effective alternative and
potentially an Auxilary Alphabet for World English.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Until I learned Shavian, I was quite unable to reconcile my
normal spoken vernacular and the full blown bloom of Literary Written
English.




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Hi Everyone

I am investigating a high speed learning method for teaching the
entire Shavian Alphabet Alphabet in under an hour. It builds on the
average person's knowledge of the Roman Alphabet.
Obviously it would not work quite so well for young children.

First, notice the Shaw Alphabet Introduction in "Androcles", splits
the Alphabet into two 24 letter sections.
The first for the 24 Consonants Peep/Bib to Mime/Nun.
The second section is the 16 Plain Vowels, 6 Rhotic Vowels (Are, Or,
Air, Err(Urge), Array, Ear) along with the 2 Composite Vowel Sounds
(Ian, Yew) tacked on at the end of the list.

I suggest that first we seperate off the following 4 Shaw Letters as
either redundant or not used at all in the phonetic transcription of
American accented English. They would be learned later. After we get
our student familar with Basic English sounds.
Ah (Redundant with On)
Ian (Unused)
Yew (Redundant with Yea+Ooze )
Urge (Redundant with Array)
Note these more difficult letters are all in the second section.
Without them, the second section would then be just 15 Plain Vowels
and the 5 Rhotic Vowels (Are, Or, Air, Array, Ear). That a lot
easier to handle since the expanded set of Vowel Letters is a big
Hurdle for new learners.

In American English, the Ah sound in most British words is usually
pronounced the same as Ash,
but in some cases where the sound is closer to a lengthened soft "o"
of On, then the Ah would be spelled as Awe. You can usually hear the
difference when pronouncing
pom-pom and palm tree.

This reduces the letters to be considered in transcribing American
English speech from 48 to 44. As well as reducing the amount of time
needed to learn the essential Shaw Letters, it also reduces the
number of acceptable variations in spelling, which really slows down
the novice reader, and makes writing in Shaw a puzzling exercise.

So first we teach the 24 Shaw consonants letters. 18 of them match up
directly with 18 T.O. consonant letters
(b,d,f,g,h,j,k,l,m,n,p,r,s,t,v,w,y,z) Another 5 Shaw letters match up
with 5 common T.O.Digraphs (th, sh,zh, ch,ng). That should be taught
next. Need to teach the 2 different "th" sounds. Point out the
second "th" sound letter, "THey" is also an abbreviation for "The".

Next we teach the basic 15 Shaw vowel letters. Start with soft vowels
which are equivalent to the 5 T.O. Vowels (Ash, Egg, If, On, Up)
Learn the Schwa Sound of Ado and its relationship to the Up sound.
Learn the soft vowel sound of Wool (oo)
Learn the 4 Long Harder Vowels (Awe, Eat, Oak, Eat)
Learn the 4 Dipthongs Vowels (Age, Ice, Out, Oil)
Learn the Rhotic Vowels. First Array as it is used to make the
composite Rhotic Vovels and then the other 4 (Are, Or, Air, Ear)

By learning all these associated Vowel letters in groups of four or
five, these new Shavian vowel letters are a lot easier to grasp and
remember.

Including the letter Yew should be the next step for beginners, It
should introduced separately as an alternative spelling or short cut
letter after the basic American sounds are learned. As it is, once
Yew is included, it allows the American user to spell the same word
in two different ways. But because Yew and Yea+Ooze look almost the
same anyway, it will not confuse the Novice user. That gets him up to
45 out of the entire set of 48 Shaw Letters.

The fact that many English words written with "U" in T.O., reflect
the composite sound Yea+Ooze, especially at the beginning of a word,
is useful knowledge and should be included in the Shaw Teaching
manual, much as a Roman Alphabet student would know that "Q" is
generally followed by a "U" at the beginning of a word and is
pronounced "kw".

I don't see any benefit of adding the Shaw Alphabet's equivalent of
the Roman "Q" or "X", during the initial learning stages.

Is that enough to get the beginner on their way to learning the Shaw
Alphabet?
If you get a chance please try it out by teaching someone and let me
know how it works out.

Any and all Comments are welcome.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Until I really learned Shavian in depth, which took a couple of
years without a teaching manual, I was quite unable to reconcile the
additional redundant letters. Now I don't find them so out of place
and step with the rest of the Shaw Alphabet. Because we are so used
to to Decipher meaning from just 26 letters, we unconsciously resist
the simplicity of the Shavian Phonetic Alphabet.



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Hi Everyone

I am investigating a high speed learning method for teaching the
entire Shavian Alphabet Alphabet in under an hour. It builds on the
average person's knowledge of the Roman Alphabet.
Obviously it would not work quite so well for young children.

First, notice the Shaw Alphabet Introduction in "Androcles", splits
the Alphabet into two 24 letter sections.
The first for the 24 Consonants Peep/Bib to Mime/Nun.
The second section is the 16 Plain Vowels, 6 Rhotic Vowels (Are, Or,
Air, Err(Urge), Array, Ear) along with the 2 Composite Vowel Sounds
(Ian, Yew) tacked on at the end of the list.

I suggest that first we seperate off the following 4 Shaw Letters as
either redundant or not used at all in the phonetic transcription of
American accented English. They would be learned later. After we get
our student familar with Basic English sounds.
Ah (Redundant with On)
Ian (Unused)
Yew (Redundant with Yea+Ooze )
Urge (Redundant with Array)
Note these more difficult letters are all in the second section.
Without them, the second section would then be just 15 Plain Vowels
and the 5 Rhotic Vowels (Are, Or, Air, Array, Ear). That a lot
easier to handle since the expanded set of Vowel Letters is a big
Hurdle for new learners.

In American English, the Ah sound in most British words is usually
pronounced the same as Ash,
but in some cases where the sound is closer to a lengthened soft "o"
of On, then the Ah would be spelled as Awe. You can usually hear the
difference when pronouncing
pom-pom and palm tree.

This reduces the letters to be considered in transcribing American
English speech from 48 to 44. As well as reducing the amount of time
needed to learn the essential Shaw Letters, it also reduces the
number of acceptable variations in spelling, which really slows down
the novice reader, and makes writing in Shaw a puzzling exercise.

So first we teach the 24 Shaw consonants letters. 18 of them match up
directly with 18 T.O. consonant letters
(b,d,f,g,h,j,k,l,m,n,p,r,s,t,v,w,y,z) Another 5 Shaw letters match up
with 5 common T.O.Digraphs (th, sh,zh, ch,ng). That should be taught
next. Need to teach the 2 different "th" sounds. Point out the
second "th" sound letter, "THey" is also an abbreviation for "The".

Next we teach the basic 15 Shaw vowel letters. Start with soft vowels
which are equivalent to the 5 T.O. Vowels (Ash, Egg, If, On, Up)
Learn the Schwa Sound of Ado and its relationship to the Up sound.
Learn the soft vowel sound of Wool (oo)
Learn the 4 Long Harder Vowels (Awe, Eat, Oak, Eat)
Learn the 4 Dipthongs Vowels (Age, Ice, Out, Oil)
Learn the Rhotic Vowels. First Array as it is used to make the
composite Rhotic Vovels and then the other 4 (Are, Or, Air, Ear)

By learning all these associated Vowel letters in groups of four or
five, these new Shavian vowel letters are a lot easier to grasp and
remember.

Including the letter Yew should be the next step for beginners, It
should introduced separately as an alternative spelling or short cut
letter after the basic American sounds are learned. As it is, once
Yew is included, it allows the American user to spell the same word
in two different ways. But because Yew and Yea+Ooze look almost the
same anyway, it will not confuse the Novice user. That gets him up to
45 out of the entire set of 48 Shaw Letters.

The fact that many English words written with "U" in T.O., reflect
the composite sound Yea+Ooze, especially at the beginning of a word,
is useful knowledge and should be included in the Shaw Teaching
manual, much as a Roman Alphabet student would know that "Q" is
generally followed by a "U" at the beginning of a word and is
pronounced "kw".

I don't see any benefit of adding the Shaw Alphabet's equivalent of
the Roman "Q" or "X", during the initial learning stages.

Is that enough to get the beginner on their way to learning the Shaw
Alphabet?
If you get a chance please try it out by teaching someone and let me
know how it works out.

Any and all Comments are welcome.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Until I really learned Shavian in depth, which took a couple of
years without a teaching manual, I was quite unable to reconcile the
additional redundant letters. Now I don't find them so out of place
and step with the rest of the Shaw Alphabet. Because we are so used
to to Decipher meaning from just 26 letters, we unconsciously resist
the simplicity of the Shavian Phonetic Alphabet.



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> I suggest that first we seperate off the following 4 Shaw Letters as
>
> either redundant or not used at all in the phonetic transcription of
> American accented English. They would be learned later. After we get
>
> our student familar with Basic English sounds.
> Ah (Redundant with On)
> Ian (Unused)
> Yew (Redundant with Yea+Ooze )
> Urge (Redundant with Array)
> Note these more difficult letters are all in the second section.
> Without them, the second section would then be just 15 Plain Vowels
> and the 5 Rhotic Vowels (Are, Or, Air, Array, Ear). That a lot
> easier to handle since the expanded set of Vowel Letters is a big
> Hurdle for new learners.
>

Paul, Dead horse. Really dead horse. Desicated really dead horse...
with maggots.

Is it really time to beat it yet again?
--Star

=====
Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
--Lorne's Mom (from Angel)




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Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.781 / Virus Database: 527 - Release Date: 21/10/2004