Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

Hi Ethan

Home schooling is the one place in America, where the parents and
their children still have effective input in how the teaching will
take place. I am also sure that Home schooled children would be an
eager audience to learn Shavian, especially if their children were
having reading difficulties, already with T.O.
A lot of parents take their kids out of public schools, when they
find the kids are getting too much bad attention (bullying, group
delinquency) and not enough good attention time (Teacher teaching
time, classroom participation) and so their reading suffers.

I just read a really good article at
http://www.homeschool.com/articles/eSeminar/default.asp
where the parents indicate concern over reading skills.

Let me excerpt the part on the various skills needed to be a fully
competent reader.

For efficient readers, reading can be deceivingly effortless,
A reading teacher's goal it to make the reading process so fluid and
automatic that the student reader hardly realizes it is happening.
Adults who may have been reading for decades, may hardly notice their
continual utilization of different reading tactics.
In fact, reading is an unbelievably complicated and sometimes
indistinct procedure.
It brings together several different learning processes like no other
daily task in our lives. Understanding all there is to know about
reading can take years of guided practise. First, we learn to sound
out and recognise words and then later on we suppress our
vocalizations to speed up the process. With practise our minds absorb
the information at higher rates.
Linguists, reading specialists and speech pathologists spend their
entire careers studying the details of language-based activities like
reading, writing and speaking. After many years in the reading
profession, I still regularly come across new reading concepts.
Though reading is a multifaceted process, for a basic understanding,
it can be broken down into three basic parts. Keep in mind that all
of these parts work together, overlapping and intertwining to create
a balanced and integrated reader.

1) In the beginning, before reading instruction has begun, most
children begin to learn about sounds. As they begin to speak they
begin to develop phonemic awareness, the ability to distinguish
sounds within words. This ability to discriminate between one sound
and the next leads to proper pronunciation. Later on it allows the
child to sound-out words, a crucial skill for all beginning readers.
All readers are presented with words with which they are unfamiliar
and must be sounded-out. When a child is first beginning to read,
this is happens frequently. As a child progresses through the years,
fewer and fewer words are unfamiliar. An average adult reader may
encounter an unfamiliar word that needs to be sounded-out or looked
up much less than one percent of the time. Even then with his
experiance, an adult reader may simply assign a meaning suggested by
context and continue.

2) English is made up of many words that are often called "sight
words" or "non-decodable words." These are words that cannot be
sounded out and must be memorized. A reader must learn them by rote
and so will become familiar with them through exposure.
The longer a student is exposed to reading, the larger their
compilation of memorized words becomes. However, even those words
which can be sounded-out sometimes called "decodable" words become
memorized words over time.

3) Now the reader puts this information together in his mind.
The sole purpose of reading is to absorb information through
language. Therefore, not only do readers need to sound out words and
recognize known words, they must understand the meaning of the
individual words that they read and the overall concept of the
passage. All these things must be done in concert as a person reads.

Understanding what you read as you read it is also an essential check
to sounding out and recognizing known words. A good reader will use
the meaning of the story to make sure they have sounded out the words
correctly and that the story is working out with some sort of
consistency. If a reader is struggling to sound out words or word
recognition itself is falling behind, comprehension will suffer.

********************end of excerpt*****************

Ethan, Thanks for your other comments.
I think before you would teach a child exclusively the Shaw Alphabet,
you would want to provide him with computer tools to transliterate
his writing into the Roman Alphabet and from there into correctly
spelled T.O. There are tools already to scan in hand printing into a
computer and to convert it into text.

But for children having difficulty learning to use the T.O., I think
it makes a lot of sense for them to start with the Shavian Alphabet.
A lot of schools in Canada already have the practice of switching
their students to a remedial English class where the accent is on
Phonics/Phonetics and sounding out words when they fall behind in
their reading.
Think how much easier this would be if the Alphabet is more, rather
than less phonetic.

Theoretically, I would suggest teaching Shavian in Kindergarden as a
play reading, and then start the Roman Alphabet in Grade One.
To simplify the switchover, you might wish to put the exceptional non-
phonetically spelled words in a Different font of the T.O, maybe bold.
Then the kid will know which words he can sound out and which words
he will have to look up in the Dictionary or ask the teacher about.
Words such as one, two, through, quay, gaol, unique, binoculars, ape,
isle, aisle, debt, garage, etc. are vary difficult to sound out
without knowing some funny rules.

Theoretically, I think it would be easier to go from Shavian to T.O.
than the reverse. We need a few practical studies.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Maybe thats why we think Shavian is so difficult, We all went
the wrong way. We all learned T.O. first and then Shavian.



--- In shavian@..., Ethan <ethanl@3...> wrote:
> I think the arguments regarding teaching children are interesting.
I
> also understand how teachers, especially those in the public
schools,
> would not be interested in teaching Shavian. Public education is
full
> of the status quo, for the most part.
>
> I have had the experience of having a child of elementary school
age ask
> me about some Shavian text I had printed on a sheet of paper. He
was
> curious about it, and wanted to know more about the alphabet, even
> asking on different occasions. This was highly unusual, as mosk
kids of
> that age want nothing to do with learning more about reading, being
> "burned out" on trying to learn TO. You may not be surprised to
know
> that this kid was being educated at home by his parents, and had
never
> been to a school in his life, as far as I know. I myself have
> experienced both worlds, being sent to public school for a few
years,
> then homeschooled - before we even had the legal right to do so, in
the
> early 1980s. Homeschooled children (and adults who were
homeschooled)
> often have an eagerness to learn new things, something which
> unfortunately seems lacking in most children who attend only the
public
> schools. Homeschooled children may be an eager audience if you're
> teaching Shavian.
> --
> ·?`°?`"?`©?`¯ - Ethan
> My name in Shavian and Latin text



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Hi Ethan

Home schooling is the one place in America, where the parents and
their children still have effective input in how the teaching will
take place. I am also sure that Home schooled children would be an
eager audience to learn Shavian, especially if their children were
having reading difficulties, already with T.O.
A lot of parents take their kids out of public schools, when they
find the kids are getting too much bad attention (bullying, group
delinquency) and not enough good attention time (Teacher teaching
time, classroom participation) and so their reading suffers.

I just read a really good article at
http://www.homeschool.com/articles/eSeminar/default.asp
where the parents indicate concern over reading skills.

Let me excerpt the part on the various skills needed to be a fully
competent reader.

For efficient readers, reading can be deceivingly effortless,
A reading teacher's goal it to make the reading process so fluid and
automatic that the student reader hardly realizes it is happening.
Adults who may have been reading for decades, may hardly notice their
continual utilization of different reading tactics.
In fact, reading is an unbelievably complicated and sometimes
indistinct procedure.
It brings together several different learning processes like no other
daily task in our lives. Understanding all there is to know about
reading can take years of guided practise. First, we learn to sound
out and recognise words and then later on we suppress our
vocalizations to speed up the process. With practise our minds absorb
the information at higher rates.
Linguists, reading specialists and speech pathologists spend their
entire careers studying the details of language-based activities like
reading, writing and speaking. After many years in the reading
profession, I still regularly come across new reading concepts.
Though reading is a multifaceted process, for a basic understanding,
it can be broken down into three basic parts. Keep in mind that all
of these parts work together, overlapping and intertwining to create
a balanced and integrated reader.

1) In the beginning, before reading instruction has begun, most
children begin to learn about sounds. As they begin to speak they
begin to develop phonemic awareness, the ability to distinguish
sounds within words. This ability to discriminate between one sound
and the next leads to proper pronunciation. Later on it allows the
child to sound-out words, a crucial skill for all beginning readers.
All readers are presented with words with which they are unfamiliar
and must be sounded-out. When a child is first beginning to read,
this is happens frequently. As a child progresses through the years,
fewer and fewer words are unfamiliar. An average adult reader may
encounter an unfamiliar word that needs to be sounded-out or looked
up much less than one percent of the time. Even then with his
experiance, an adult reader may simply assign a meaning suggested by
context and continue.

2) English is made up of many words that are often called "sight
words" or "non-decodable words." These are words that cannot be
sounded out and must be memorized. A reader must learn them by rote
and so will become familiar with them through exposure.
The longer a student is exposed to reading, the larger their
compilation of memorized words becomes. However, even those words
which can be sounded-out sometimes called "decodable" words become
memorized words over time.

3) Now the reader puts this information together in his mind.
The sole purpose of reading is to absorb information through
language. Therefore, not only do readers need to sound out words and
recognize known words, they must understand the meaning of the
individual words that they read and the overall concept of the
passage. All these things must be done in concert as a person reads.

Understanding what you read as you read it is also an essential check
to sounding out and recognizing known words. A good reader will use
the meaning of the story to make sure they have sounded out the words
correctly and that the story is working out with some sort of
consistency. If a reader is struggling to sound out words or word
recognition itself is falling behind, comprehension will suffer.

********************end of excerpt*****************

Ethan, Thanks for your other comments.
I think before you would teach a child exclusively the Shaw Alphabet,
you would want to provide him with computer tools to transliterate
his writing into the Roman Alphabet and from there into correctly
spelled T.O. There are tools already to scan in hand printing into a
computer and to convert it into text.

But for children having difficulty learning to use the T.O., I think
it makes a lot of sense for them to start with the Shavian Alphabet.
A lot of schools in Canada already have the practice of switching
their students to a remedial English class where the accent is on
Phonics/Phonetics and sounding out words when they fall behind in
their reading.
Think how much easier this would be if the Alphabet is more, rather
than less phonetic.

Theoretically, I would suggest teaching Shavian in Kindergarden as a
play reading, and then start the Roman Alphabet in Grade One.
To simplify the switchover, you might wish to put the exceptional non-
phonetically spelled words in a Different font of the T.O, maybe bold.
Then the kid will know which words he can sound out and which words
he will have to look up in the Dictionary or ask the teacher about.
Words such as one, two, through, quay, gaol, unique, binoculars, ape,
isle, aisle, debt, garage, etc. are vary difficult to sound out
without knowing some funny rules.

Theoretically, I think it would be easier to go from Shavian to T.O.
than the reverse. We need a few practical studies.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Maybe thats why we think Shavian is so difficult, We all went
the wrong way. We all learned T.O. first and then Shavian.



--- In shavian@..., Ethan <ethanl@3...> wrote:
> I think the arguments regarding teaching children are interesting.
I
> also understand how teachers, especially those in the public
schools,
> would not be interested in teaching Shavian. Public education is
full
> of the status quo, for the most part.
>
> I have had the experience of having a child of elementary school
age ask
> me about some Shavian text I had printed on a sheet of paper. He
was
> curious about it, and wanted to know more about the alphabet, even
> asking on different occasions. This was highly unusual, as mosk
kids of
> that age want nothing to do with learning more about reading, being
> "burned out" on trying to learn TO. You may not be surprised to
know
> that this kid was being educated at home by his parents, and had
never
> been to a school in his life, as far as I know. I myself have
> experienced both worlds, being sent to public school for a few
years,
> then homeschooled - before we even had the legal right to do so, in
the
> early 1980s. Homeschooled children (and adults who were
homeschooled)
> often have an eagerness to learn new things, something which
> unfortunately seems lacking in most children who attend only the
public
> schools. Homeschooled children may be an eager audience if you're
> teaching Shavian.
> --
> ·?`°?`"?`©?`¯ - Ethan
> My name in Shavian and Latin text



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--------------------------------------------------------------------~->


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<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Hi Ethan & Others with kids

In my last comment on Home-Schooling and the sophisticated learning
process neede to become an effective reader, I suggested that it
would be
helpful for the child if he was taught Shavian in a Kindergarden as
a kind of play reading, and then start the Roman Alphabet later on,
maybe in Grade One.
I just want to re-iterate that was a theoretical/heretical
suggestion. We really do not have any pratical experiance on what
the effects would be teaching a child a really Phonetic Alphabet.
I am certain there would be some side effects to his behavior and
his ability to think and take notes in the classroom. We can not be
certain that learning to read and write Shavian would be an unmixed
blessing. If he went to a regular school they might very well forbid
it, to ensure he concentrated on the T.O. and to avoid showing up
the other kids.

We need a few practical studies/experiments/trials to confirm our
expectations and determine the best time and place for the study of
the Shavian



























young pre-literate children..
>
> Regards, Paul V.
>
> P.S. We don't see as many benefts for ourselves. We all went
> the wrong way. We all learned T.O. first and then learned Shavian
as Adults. For pre-literate children their might be more serious
consequences.
____________________attached______________________________
>
> Home schooling is a place where the parents and
> their children still have effective input in how the teaching will
> be done.
> I just read a really good article at
> http://www.homeschool.com/articles/eSeminar/default.asp
> where the parents indicate concern over reading skills.
>
> Let me excerpt the part on the various skills needed to be a fully
> competent reader.
>
> For efficient readers, reading can be deceivingly effortless,
> A reading teacher's goal it to make the reading process so fluid
and
> automatic that the student reader hardly realizes it is happening.
> Adults who may have been reading for decades, may hardly notice
their
> continual utilization of different reading tactics.
> In fact, reading is an unbelievably complicated and sometimes
> indistinct procedure.
> It brings together several different learning processes like no
other
> daily task in our lives. Understanding all there is to know about
> reading can take years of guided practise. First, we learn to
sound
> out and recognise words and then later on we suppress our
> vocalizations to speed up the process. With practise our minds
absorb
> the information at higher rates.
> Linguists, reading specialists and speech pathologists spend their
> entire careers studying the details of language-based activities
like
> reading, writing and speaking. After many years in the reading
> profession, I still regularly come across new reading concepts.
> Though reading is a multifaceted process, for a basic
understanding,
> it can be broken down into three basic parts. Keep in mind that
all
> of these parts work together, overlapping and intertwining to
create
> a balanced and integrated reader.
>
> 1) In the beginning, before reading instruction has begun, most
> children begin to learn about sounds. As they begin to speak they
> begin to develop phonemic awareness, the ability to distinguish
> sounds within words. This ability to discriminate between one
sound
> and the next leads to proper pronunciation. Later on it allows the
> child to sound-out words, a crucial skill for all beginning
readers.
> All readers are presented with words with which they are
unfamiliar
> and must be sounded-out. When a child is first beginning to read,
> this is happens frequently. As a child progresses through the
years,
> fewer and fewer words are unfamiliar. An average adult reader may
> encounter an unfamiliar word that needs to be sounded-out or
looked
> up much less than one percent of the time. Even then with his
> experiance, an adult reader may simply assign a meaning suggested
by
> context and continue.
>
> 2) English is made up of many words that are often called "sight
> words" or "non-decodable words." These are words that cannot be
> sounded out and must be memorized. A reader must learn them by
rote
> and so will become familiar with them through exposure.
> The longer a student is exposed to reading, the larger their
> compilation of memorized words becomes. However, even those words
> which can be sounded-out sometimes called "decodable" words become
> memorized words over time.
>
> 3) Now the reader puts this information together in his mind.
> The sole purpose of reading is to absorb information through
> language. Therefore, not only do readers need to sound out words
> and recognize known words, they must understand the meaning of the
> individual words that they read and the overall concept of the
> passage. All these things must be done in concert as a person
reads.




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<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/

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---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.781 / Virus Database: 527 - Release Date: 21/10/2004

hmm... play reading... now that's a novel idea. We play at everything
else before we achieve it.

--Star, who isn't quite awake at 1pm.

--- paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@...> wrote:

> Hi Ethan & Others with kids
>
> In my last comment on Home-Schooling and the sophisticated learning
> process neede to become an effective reader, I suggested that it
> would be
> helpful for the child if he was taught Shavian in a Kindergarden as
> a kind of play reading, and then start the Roman Alphabet later on,
> maybe in Grade One.
> I just want to re-iterate that was a theoretical/heretical
> suggestion. We really do not have any pratical experiance on what
> the effects would be teaching a child a really Phonetic Alphabet.
> I am certain there would be some side effects to his behavior and
> his ability to think and take notes in the classroom. We can not be
> certain that learning to read and write Shavian would be an unmixed
> blessing. If he went to a regular school they might very well forbid
> it, to ensure he concentrated on the T.O. and to avoid showing up
> the other kids.
>
> We need a few practical studies/experiments/trials to confirm our
> expectations and determine the best time and place for the study of
> the Shavian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> young pre-literate children..
> >
> > Regards, Paul V.
> >
> > P.S. We don't see as many benefts for ourselves. We all went
> > the wrong way. We all learned T.O. first and then learned Shavian
> as Adults. For pre-literate children their might be more serious
> consequences.
> ____________________attached______________________________
> >
> > Home schooling is a place where the parents and
> > their children still have effective input in how the teaching will
> > be done.
> > I just read a really good article at
> > http://www.homeschool.com/articles/eSeminar/default.asp
> > where the parents indicate concern over reading skills.
> >
> > Let me excerpt the part on the various skills needed to be a fully
> > competent reader.
> >
> > For efficient readers, reading can be deceivingly effortless,
> > A reading teacher's goal it to make the reading process so fluid
> and
> > automatic that the student reader hardly realizes it is happening.
> > Adults who may have been reading for decades, may hardly notice
> their
> > continual utilization of different reading tactics.
> > In fact, reading is an unbelievably complicated and sometimes
> > indistinct procedure.
> > It brings together several different learning processes like no
> other
> > daily task in our lives. Understanding all there is to know about
> > reading can take years of guided practise. First, we learn to
> sound
> > out and recognise words and then later on we suppress our
> > vocalizations to speed up the process. With practise our minds
> absorb
> > the information at higher rates.
> > Linguists, reading specialists and speech pathologists spend their
> > entire careers studying the details of language-based activities
> like
> > reading, writing and speaking. After many years in the reading
> > profession, I still regularly come across new reading concepts.
> > Though reading is a multifaceted process, for a basic
> understanding,
> > it can be broken down into three basic parts. Keep in mind that
> all
> > of these parts work together, overlapping and intertwining to
> create
> > a balanced and integrated reader.
> >
> > 1) In the beginning, before reading instruction has begun, most
> > children begin to learn about sounds. As they begin to speak they
> > begin to develop phonemic awareness, the ability to distinguish
> > sounds within words. This ability to discriminate between one
> sound
> > and the next leads to proper pronunciation. Later on it allows the
> > child to sound-out words, a crucial skill for all beginning
> readers.
> > All readers are presented with words with which they are
> unfamiliar
> > and must be sounded-out. When a child is first beginning to read,
> > this is happens frequently. As a child progresses through the
> years,
> > fewer and fewer words are unfamiliar. An average adult reader may
> > encounter an unfamiliar word that needs to be sounded-out or
> looked
> > up much less than one percent of the time. Even then with his
> > experiance, an adult reader may simply assign a meaning suggested
> by
> > context and continue.
> >
> > 2) English is made up of many words that are often called "sight
> > words" or "non-decodable words." These are words that cannot be
> > sounded out and must be memorized. A reader must learn them by
> rote
> > and so will become familiar with them through exposure.
> > The longer a student is exposed to reading, the larger their
> > compilation of memorized words becomes. However, even those words
> > which can be sounded-out sometimes called "decodable" words become
> > memorized words over time.
> >
> > 3) Now the reader puts this information together in his mind.
> > The sole purpose of reading is to absorb information through
> > language. Therefore, not only do readers need to sound out words
> > and recognize known words, they must understand the meaning of the
> > individual words that they read and the overall concept of the
> > passage. All these things must be done in concert as a person
> reads.
>
>
>


=====
Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
--Lorne's Mom (from Angel)



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---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.781 / Virus Database: 527 - Release Date: 21/10/2004

hmm... play reading... now that's a novel idea. We play at everything
else before we achieve it.

--Star, who isn't quite awake at 1pm.

--- paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@...> wrote:

> Hi Ethan & Others with kids
>
> In my last comment on Home-Schooling and the sophisticated learning
> process neede to become an effective reader, I suggested that it
> would be
> helpful for the child if he was taught Shavian in a Kindergarden as
> a kind of play reading, and then start the Roman Alphabet later on,
> maybe in Grade One.
> I just want to re-iterate that was a theoretical/heretical
> suggestion. We really do not have any pratical experiance on what
> the effects would be teaching a child a really Phonetic Alphabet.
> I am certain there would be some side effects to his behavior and
> his ability to think and take notes in the classroom. We can not be
> certain that learning to read and write Shavian would be an unmixed
> blessing. If he went to a regular school they might very well forbid
> it, to ensure he concentrated on the T.O. and to avoid showing up
> the other kids.
>
> We need a few practical studies/experiments/trials to confirm our
> expectations and determine the best time and place for the study of
> the Shavian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> young pre-literate children..
> >
> > Regards, Paul V.
> >
> > P.S. We don't see as many benefts for ourselves. We all went
> > the wrong way. We all learned T.O. first and then learned Shavian
> as Adults. For pre-literate children their might be more serious
> consequences.
> ____________________attached______________________________
> >
> > Home schooling is a place where the parents and
> > their children still have effective input in how the teaching will
> > be done.
> > I just read a really good article at
> > http://www.homeschool.com/articles/eSeminar/default.asp
> > where the parents indicate concern over reading skills.
> >
> > Let me excerpt the part on the various skills needed to be a fully
> > competent reader.
> >
> > For efficient readers, reading can be deceivingly effortless,
> > A reading teacher's goal it to make the reading process so fluid
> and
> > automatic that the student reader hardly realizes it is happening.
> > Adults who may have been reading for decades, may hardly notice
> their
> > continual utilization of different reading tactics.
> > In fact, reading is an unbelievably complicated and sometimes
> > indistinct procedure.
> > It brings together several different learning processes like no
> other
> > daily task in our lives. Understanding all there is to know about
> > reading can take years of guided practise. First, we learn to
> sound
> > out and recognise words and then later on we suppress our
> > vocalizations to speed up the process. With practise our minds
> absorb
> > the information at higher rates.
> > Linguists, reading specialists and speech pathologists spend their
> > entire careers studying the details of language-based activities
> like
> > reading, writing and speaking. After many years in the reading
> > profession, I still regularly come across new reading concepts.
> > Though reading is a multifaceted process, for a basic
> understanding,
> > it can be broken down into three basic parts. Keep in mind that
> all
> > of these parts work together, overlapping and intertwining to
> create
> > a balanced and integrated reader.
> >
> > 1) In the beginning, before reading instruction has begun, most
> > children begin to learn about sounds. As they begin to speak they
> > begin to develop phonemic awareness, the ability to distinguish
> > sounds within words. This ability to discriminate between one
> sound
> > and the next leads to proper pronunciation. Later on it allows the
> > child to sound-out words, a crucial skill for all beginning
> readers.
> > All readers are presented with words with which they are
> unfamiliar
> > and must be sounded-out. When a child is first beginning to read,
> > this is happens frequently. As a child progresses through the
> years,
> > fewer and fewer words are unfamiliar. An average adult reader may
> > encounter an unfamiliar word that needs to be sounded-out or
> looked
> > up much less than one percent of the time. Even then with his
> > experiance, an adult reader may simply assign a meaning suggested
> by
> > context and continue.
> >
> > 2) English is made up of many words that are often called "sight
> > words" or "non-decodable words." These are words that cannot be
> > sounded out and must be memorized. A reader must learn them by
> rote
> > and so will become familiar with them through exposure.
> > The longer a student is exposed to reading, the larger their
> > compilation of memorized words becomes. However, even those words
> > which can be sounded-out sometimes called "decodable" words become
> > memorized words over time.
> >
> > 3) Now the reader puts this information together in his mind.
> > The sole purpose of reading is to absorb information through
> > language. Therefore, not only do readers need to sound out words
> > and recognize known words, they must understand the meaning of the
> > individual words that they read and the overall concept of the
> > passage. All these things must be done in concert as a person
> reads.
>
>
>


=====
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Hi Star
Thanks for commenting.
I think we are all taking the "reading" angle too seriously. Even
though it is an incredibly useful skill for an adult in our culture,
and it is suffering under the onslaught of TV and Video Games, we
need to realize that kids do learn things better when they are fun.
When they can play around with them.

Right now a lot of kids are learning a new Alphabet, called Grafitti
just to be able to send text messages through their Palm Pilots.

I think a loose system of writing based on Shavian, with flexible
spelling standards, would make for a type of "play reading". Shavian
is ideal as an Alphabet that you can play with.

Regards, Paul V.
P.S. We need a play book with poems and puzzles and pictures all
based on the Shaw Letters. Dr. Seuss on speed.
P.P.S. We need a few practical studies/experiments/trials to confirm
our expectations and determine the best time and place for kids to
study the Shavian Alphabet.
____________________attached____________________________
--- In shavian@..., Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...>
wrote:
> hmm... play reading... now that's a novel idea. We play at
everything
> else before we achieve it.
>
> --Star, who isn't quite awake at 1pm.
>
> --- paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> > Hi Ethan & Others with kids
> > In my last comment on Home-Schooling and the sophisticated
learning
> > process neede to become an effective reader, I suggested that it
> > would be
> > helpful for the child if he was taught Shavian in a Kindergarden
as
> > a kind of play reading, and then start the Roman Alphabet later
on,
> > maybe in Grade One.
> > I just want to re-iterate that was a theoretical/heretical
> > suggestion. We really do not have any pratical experiance on what
> > the effects would be teaching a child a really Phonetic Alphabet.
> > I am certain there would be some side effects to his behavior and
> > his ability to think and take notes in the classroom. We can not
be
> > certain that learning to read and write Shavian would be an
unmixed
> > blessing. If he went to a regular school they might very well
forbid
> > it, to ensure he concentrated on the T.O. and to avoid showing up
> > the other kids.
Regards, Paul V.
P.S. We need a few practical studies/experiments/trials to confirm
our expectations and determine the best time and place for the study
of the Shavian Alphabet.



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Just think how cool it would be to use shavian instead of grafitti on
palm pilots. I have a few pages of nursery rhymes that I have
transcribed. Poetry and the sentances used for teaching typing are
great for learning, because of the repetition of letters. The problem
is finding public domain or such that we can do legally.

--Star

--- paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@...> wrote:

> Hi Star
> Thanks for commenting.
> I think we are all taking the "reading" angle too seriously. Even
> though it is an incredibly useful skill for an adult in our culture,
> and it is suffering under the onslaught of TV and Video Games, we
> need to realize that kids do learn things better when they are fun.
> When they can play around with them.
>
> Right now a lot of kids are learning a new Alphabet, called Grafitti
> just to be able to send text messages through their Palm Pilots.
>
> I think a loose system of writing based on Shavian, with flexible
> spelling standards, would make for a type of "play reading". Shavian
> is ideal as an Alphabet that you can play with.
>
> Regards, Paul V.
> P.S. We need a play book with poems and puzzles and pictures all
> based on the Shaw Letters. Dr. Seuss on speed.
> P.P.S. We need a few practical studies/experiments/trials to confirm
> our expectations and determine the best time and place for kids to
> study the Shavian Alphabet.
> ____________________attached____________________________
> --- In shavian@..., Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...>
> wrote:
> > hmm... play reading... now that's a novel idea. We play at
> everything
> > else before we achieve it.
> >
> > --Star, who isn't quite awake at 1pm.
> >
> > --- paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> > > Hi Ethan & Others with kids
> > > In my last comment on Home-Schooling and the sophisticated
> learning
> > > process neede to become an effective reader, I suggested that it
> > > would be
> > > helpful for the child if he was taught Shavian in a Kindergarden
> as
> > > a kind of play reading, and then start the Roman Alphabet later
> on,
> > > maybe in Grade One.
> > > I just want to re-iterate that was a theoretical/heretical
> > > suggestion. We really do not have any pratical experiance on what
>
> > > the effects would be teaching a child a really Phonetic Alphabet.
>
> > > I am certain there would be some side effects to his behavior and
>
> > > his ability to think and take notes in the classroom. We can not
> be
> > > certain that learning to read and write Shavian would be an
> unmixed
> > > blessing. If he went to a regular school they might very well
> forbid
> > > it, to ensure he concentrated on the T.O. and to avoid showing up
>
> > > the other kids.
> Regards, Paul V.
> P.S. We need a few practical studies/experiments/trials to confirm
> our expectations and determine the best time and place for the study
> of the Shavian Alphabet.
>
>


=====
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Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!



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Hi Star and Paul,

I believe Shavian would work well on Palm Pilots because Grafiti is a single stroke alphabet. And... dunta da... Shavian is also a single stroke alphabet.

best of regards,

Carl

Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@...> wrote:

Just think how cool it would be to use shavian instead of grafitti on
palm pilots. I have a few pages of nursery rhymes that I have
transcribed. Poetry and the sentances used for teaching typing are
great for learning, because of the repetition of letters. The problem
is finding public domain or such that we can do legally.

--Star

--- paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@...> wrote:

> Hi Star
> Thanks for commenting.
> I think we are all taking the "reading" angle too seriously. Even
> though it is an incredibly useful skill for an adult in our culture,
> and it is suffering under the onslaught of TV and Video Games, we
> need to realize that kids do learn things better when they are fun.
> When they can play around with them.
>
> Right now a lot of kids are learning a new Alphabet, called Grafitti
> just to be able to send text messages through their Palm Pilots.
>
> I think a loose system of writing based on Shavian, with flexible
> spelling standards, would make for a type of "play reading". Shavian
> is ideal as an Alphabet that you can play with.
>
> Regards, Paul V.
> P.S. We need a play book with poems and puzzles and pictures all
> based on the Shaw Letters. Dr. Seuss on speed.
> P.P.S. We need a few practical studies/experiments/trials to confirm
> our expectations and determine the best time and place for kids to
> study the Shavian Alphabet.
> ____________________attached____________________________
> --- In shavian@..., Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...>
> wrote:
> > hmm... play reading... now that's a novel idea. We play at
> everything
> > else before we achieve it.
> >
> > --Star, who isn't quite awake at 1pm.
> >
> > --- paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> > > Hi Ethan & Others with kids
> > > In my last comment on Home-Schooling and the sophisticated
> learning
> > > process neede to become an effective reader, I suggested that it
> > > would be
> > > helpful for the child if he was taught Shavian in a Kindergarden
> as
> > > a kind of play reading, and then start the Roman Alphabet later
> on,
> > > maybe in Grade One.
> > > I just want to re-iterate that was a theoretical/heretical
> > > suggestion. We really do not have any pratical experiance on what
>
> > > the effects would be teaching a child a really Phonetic Alphabet.
>
> > > I am certain there would be some side effects to his behavior and
>
> > > his ability to think and take notes in the classroom. We can not
> be
> > > certain that learning to read and write Shavian would be an
> unmixed
> > > blessing. If he went to a regular school they might very well
> forbid
> > > it, to ensure he concentrated on the T.O. and to avoid showing up
>
> > > the other kids.
> Regards, Paul V.
> P.S. We need a few practical studies/experiments/trials to confirm
> our expectations and determine the best time and place for the study
> of the Shavian Alphabet.
>
>


=====
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/v382/StarRaven

Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!



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On Sep 2, 2004, at 16:17, carl easton wrote:



Hi Star and Paul,

I believe Shavian would work well on Palm Pilots because Grafiti is a single stroke alphabet. And... dunta da... Shavian is also a single stroke alphabet.

best of regards,



Yes, it could do well on a tablet or PDA. However, to interact with the rest of the world data entered in Shavian would need to be exportable in Roman. Therefore, the device would need at a minimum a Shavian to Roman translator. And this would not necessarily be trivial since, for example, the word ?????? in Shavian can be read or reed in Roman. And then of course if one wants to limit ones reading to Shavian one would need the reverse, a Roman to Shavian translator. With Grafitti one needs no translation since each character maps directly to Roman.

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86

Scott Harrison wrote:
>
<snip>
> Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86
>

Scott, Mozilla Mail says your digital signature is invalid - doesn't
match your message. Email me if you want all the details it gave.
--
·???????? - Ethan


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