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Okay, you make a good point. We use metric a little, mostly for
measurements on food (or not) products and medications. Of course,
in those cases, people normally don't even think about what they
are. Both are given on food. If someone wants to buy a soft drink,
they get a big bottle or a little bottle, and they're done thinking
about it.
We also measure engine displacement in liters and everything else on
the vehicle in imperial/customary/US measurements. I really don't
have to convert between the two systems too much. But if the US had
already switched over when we said we would, would imperial still
have enough of a presence to persist the way it does there?
I can't remember how many times we've tried to switch. The last
time was supposed to be 2000, but along with the flying cars, metric
never quite made it here. Then I think we were supposed to switch
by 2005, but I think it's been postponed to 2010. After that, who
knows?

--- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
wrote:
> At least with every country in the world, including the USA, you
pretty much
> avoid insanity by having either have one standard or the other in
daily use
> in your country (i.e. metric OR imperial)... every country apart
from the
> UK.
>
> Here in blighty we have the frankly bizarre situation of BOTH
(mutually
> incompatible) systems trying to co-exist alongside each other,
with obvious
> resulting confusion:
>
> * Milk is delivered to the doorstep only in pint bottles, but when
you buy
> it in a shop it's only available in millilitres
> * In pubs you buy draught (from tap) beer by the pint, but you can
only buy
> bottled beer, spirit shots and other bar drinks by millilitres
> * You regularly see 'for sale' signs on development land quoting
the
> available area in EITHER acres OR hectares... you also see carpet
warehouses
> advertising either by square feet or by square metres (or both,
but with one
> measurement in a massive typeface and the other in tiny i.e.
unreadable
> print underneath)
> * In local supermarkets it's not uncommon to find 99% of the
products on the
> shelves weighed in grams, but then find the vegetables and
other 'sell by
> weight' items weighed in pounds and ounces
> * Weather forecasters have to describe temperatures in both
Celsius AND
> Fahrenheit, but often forget Fahrenheit in their haste... also
> * On the roads, weight restrictions are only in metric tonnes, but
distances
> are in miles and yards and height restrictions are in both metres
AND feet
> and inches (and they wonder why double-decker buses still get
stuck under
> low bridges)
> * We describe our cars' weight in tonnes/kilograms and the engine
> displacement in litres, yet measure the wheel diameter in inches
and the
> tire pressure in pounds per square inch (psi)... Engine torque is
described
> in either foot pounds or Newton metres... What's more, we price
petrol by
> the litre yet measure fuel economy in miles per gallon!
>
> Maybe this is hardly on topic... I just thought that many
Americans who
> think their use of imperial units is crazy just have no idea how
crazy it is
> here trying to juggle two completely incompatible systems that
very few
> people on the street really know how to convert between at all,
let alone
> convert between on the spot at the supermarket shelves.
>
> ...gasps for air...
>
> Hugh B



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Personally, I hate imperial units and try my honest best to avoid them
wherever possible. The main reason I think people resist the change to
metric is because they perceive it as "big brother Europe" imposing its
rules on us poor besieged Brits.

Hugh B

-----Original Message-----
From: Ph. D. [mailto:phild@...]
Sent: 28 September 2004 04:22
To: shavian@...
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: Teaching the Shavian Alphabet

Hugh Birkenhead skribis:
>
> Here in blighty we have the frankly bizarre situation of
> BOTH (mutually incompatible) systems trying to co-exist
> alongside each other, with obvious resulting confusion:
>
> * In local supermarkets it's not uncommon to find 99%
> of the products on the shelves weighed in grams, but
> then find the vegetables and other 'sell by weight' items
> weighed in pounds and ounces


Weren't there some news reports last year about
shopkeepers in the UK being fined for selling vegetables
by the pound instead of kilogram?

--Ph. D.






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The change-over to metric went surprisingly well in Canada, thanks
to Pierre Eliot Trudeau, although I remember for a long time the
hardware stores had two sizes for everything. The french guys in
Quebec liked the idea.
So after a few years, the change took.
Everything now is bought or sold in metric, except American Cars.
Highways are switched over to Kilometers.
I guess it is a lot easier to change things in a Small country.

Exceptions. Most Shoes, although there seems to be a feminine inch
and masculine inch. Gold is in troy ounces, which is very different
from regular ounces avodiporous. (oz) Something like that.
The weatherman will provide farheinheit as well celcius on displays.

The British system seemed to have such a lot of exceptions and
variations.
Short ton versus Long Ton. Knots, fathoms, stones and furlongs.
I prefer straight forward metric.
A little pain is better than endless frustration.
Regards, Paul V.



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On Sep 28, 2004, at 20:12, paul vandenbrink wrote:

>
> The British system seemed to have such a lot of exceptions and
> variations.
> Short ton versus Long Ton. Knots, fathoms, stones and furlongs.
> I prefer straight forward metric.
> A little pain is better than endless frustration.
>
Some things are a little easier without metric though. One atmosphere
is really 101325 pascals in metric. Methinks one atmosphere is easier
to deal with. :-)

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86

> Some things are a little easier without metric though. One
> atmosphere
> is really 101325 pascals in metric. Methinks one atmosphere is easier
> to deal with. :-)

What's wrong with working in megapascals?

Hugh B

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On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:52:55 +0100, Hugh Birkenhead
<mixsynth@...> wrote:
> What's wrong with working in megapascals?

Nothing in principle, but some people use hectopascals instead - so
they can pretend to use SI units when it's simply cleverly disguised
millibars (non-SI unit).

Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>


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The question is, why didn't they make one atmosphere at however many
pascals as the base? I mean, it wouldn't kill them.

Now, about changing groups...
--Star

--- Philip Newton <philip.newton@...> wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:52:55 +0100, Hugh Birkenhead
> <mixsynth@...> wrote:
> > What's wrong with working in megapascals?
>
> Nothing in principle, but some people use hectopascals instead - so
> they can pretend to use SI units when it's simply cleverly disguised
> millibars (non-SI unit).
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
>


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Yes, changing groups... I agree that YahooGroups is OK for our purpose. So
all I have to do, if the group is OK with it, is start up a fresh list
called ShawAlphabet (or whatever is preferred) and transfer all the vault
files etc to it. I don't think we can transfer archived messages from group
to group but I will look into the possibility.

Regards
Hugh B

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Star Raven [mailto:celestraof12worlds@...]
> Sent: 29 September 2004 13:03
> To: shavian@...
> Subject: Re: [shavian] The Pain of going Metric
>
>
> The question is, why didn't they make one atmosphere at however many
> pascals as the base? I mean, it wouldn't kill them.
>
> Now, about changing groups...
> --Star
>
> --- Philip Newton <philip.newton@...> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:52:55 +0100, Hugh Birkenhead
> > <mixsynth@...> wrote:
> > > What's wrong with working in megapascals?
> >
> > Nothing in principle, but some people use hectopascals instead - so
> > they can pretend to use SI units when it's simply cleverly disguised
> > millibars (non-SI unit).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > --
> > Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
> >
>
>
> =====
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>
> Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
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>
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I'm all for it! And Shaw Alphabet is fine with me.

--Star

--- Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...> wrote:

> Yes, changing groups... I agree that YahooGroups is OK for our
> purpose. So
> all I have to do, if the group is OK with it, is start up a fresh
> list
> called ShawAlphabet (or whatever is preferred) and transfer all the
> vault
> files etc to it. I don't think we can transfer archived messages from
> group
> to group but I will look into the possibility.
>
> Regards
> Hugh B
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Star Raven [mailto:celestraof12worlds@...]
> > Sent: 29 September 2004 13:03
> > To: shavian@...
> > Subject: Re: [shavian] The Pain of going Metric
> >
> >
> > The question is, why didn't they make one atmosphere at however
> many
> > pascals as the base? I mean, it wouldn't kill them.
> >
> > Now, about changing groups...
> > --Star
> >
> > --- Philip Newton <philip.newton@...> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:52:55 +0100, Hugh Birkenhead
> > > <mixsynth@...> wrote:
> > > > What's wrong with working in megapascals?
> > >
> > > Nothing in principle, but some people use hectopascals instead -
> so
> > > they can pretend to use SI units when it's simply cleverly
> disguised
> > > millibars (non-SI unit).
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > --
> > > Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
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