Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

In a message from Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...>
dated Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:27:26 +0000, my mailer made me see:

-> dC Yl (ispeSali font kriEtDz),
Ê
-> sumTiN F mFself hAv nevD komentid on: wic kIÊSUd bI Vzd t reprazent H
'nEmD dot'? "it's H 'slAS' kI", F hC V krF - but SUd it bI? a wFl bAk a fV
pIpal pUt fPwDd prapOzalz saJestiN HAt H 'slAS' kAriktD stE on H 'slAS' kI n
H nEmD dot bI mMvd t H Sift-g paziSan. F'm not SUD wF H nEmD dot izÊin H
plEs it iz in eniwE, but it iz rWli H Onli bAdli-plEst kAriktD in H set. it
SUd bI posibal t reprazentÊH slAS kAriktD in /SEvian wiHQt hAviN t cEnJ
fonts hyf wE TrM a tekst. /fil /driskal obviasli TYt His tM, sO hI inklMdid
wun on H Sift-bAkslAS paziSan; it iz an imprMvmant, but not Yl H /SEvian
fonts hAv it HX, sO it iznt rWli prAktikal t Vz.


I must have missed the proposal to place the namer dot on Shift-G. In the
input manager that I created for OPENSTEP/MacOS X, I placed in on Shift-B.
Of course with that technology it really does not matter what the font has
because the rulebooks take care of representing any characters available.
Ê
This is a great argument for why we should really be putting out our
documents in Unicode format instead of doing this transliteration.
Admittedly it will require a translation in the future when Shavian is
finally assigned the proper Unicode points, but until then we will not have
to worry about changing fonts half way through a text.



-> sO, F saJest H nEmD dot bI mMvd t Sift-g n H slAS kAriktD bI pUt bAk t H
slAS kI, Az px H ariJinal prapOzalz; sins H nEmD dot iznt veri muc Vzd in
/SEvian teksts, it SUd not bI difikUlt t 'fFnd-n-riplEs' H kAriktD wiH
'Sift-g' in teksts Ylredi tFpt up.



For the time being I will keep my input manager using Shift-B. Note that I
can also add Shift-G if it is decided that is the way to go.
Ê


-> it wUd bI gUd t sPt His wun Qt, sO wI kAn fxHD ridVs H nId t swop fonts
wen trAnzlitDEtiN sumTiN, if not wFp it Qt.
Ê
->/hV /bxkanhed

--
Scott Harrison

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F agrI HAt H slAS kI iz not H best plEs fP H nEmD-dot -- but wF cMz Sift-g Az its nV hOm? wX'z H nemonik sens in HAt? F prifx /filip /driskal's salMSan (Sift-bAkslAS), Az it kIps H nEmD-dot -- a simbal -- on a simbal kI. YlsO, it wUd riplEs H 'pFp' kAriktD, wic iz hRdlI evD Vzd. anuHD plEs mFt bI H ` kI, wic iz At H top-left v mF kIbPd, t H left v H numbD-wun kI: HAt wUd not rikwFD H Sift kI.

/lFnal /fiS

----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mailto:mixsynth@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: 13 January 2000 5:27 pm
Subject: [shavian] Slash, not namer dot!

dC Yl (ispeSali font kriEtDz),

sumTiN F mFself hAv nevD komentid on: wic kI SUd bI Vzd t reprazent H 'nEmD dot'? "it's H 'slAS' kI", F hC V krF - but SUd it bI? a wFl bAk a fV pIpal pUt fPwDd prapOzalz saJestiN HAt H 'slAS' kAriktD stE on H 'slAS' kI n H nEmD dot bI mMvd t H Sift-g paziSan. F'm not SUD wF H nEmD dot iz in H plEs it iz in eniwE, but it iz rWli H Onli bAdli-plEst kAriktD in H set. it SUd bI posibal t reprazent H slAS kAriktD in /SEvian wiHQt hAviN t cEnJ fonts hyf wE TrM a tekst. /fil /driskal obviasli TYt His tM, sO hI inklMdid wun on H Sift-bAkslAS paziSan; it iz an imprMvmant, but not Yl H /SEvian fonts hAv it HX, sO it iznt rWli prAktikal t Vz.

sO, F saJest H nEmD dot bI mMvd t Sift-g n H slAS kAriktD bI pUt bAk t H slAS kI, Az px H ariJinal prapOzalz; sins H nEmD dot iznt veri muc Vzd in /SEvian teksts, it SUd not bI difikUlt t 'fFnd-n-riplEs' H kAriktD wiH 'Sift-g' in teksts Ylredi tFpt up.

it wUd bI gUd t sPt His wun Qt, sO wI kAn fxHD ridVs H nId t swop fonts wen trAnzlitDEtiN sumTiN, if not wFp it Qt.


/hV /bxkanhed
www.soundbox.freeuk.com <http://www.soundbox.freeuk.com>

________________________________

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F must sE F lFk jP lyst saJescan (H ` kI). HAt wE H slAS kAriktD wUd bI pUt rFt bAk wX it biloNz. nO wun evD Vziz H ` kAriktD eniwE (hel, F dOnt Ivan nO hQ wun kUd Vz it).

wot sE jI, font dizFnDz?

/hV /bxkanhed
www.soundbox.freeuk.com <http://www.soundbox.freeuk.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Lionel Ghoti <mailto:lionel_ghoti@...>
To: Shavian eGroup <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: 13 January 2000 20:59
Subject: [shavian] Re: Slash, not namer dot!

F agrI HAt H slAS kI iz not H best plEs fP H nEmD-dot -- but wF cMz Sift-g Az its nV hOm? wX'z H nemonik sens in HAt? F prifx /filip /driskal's salMSan (Sift-bAkslAS), Az it kIps H nEmD-dot -- a simbal -- on a simbal kI. YlsO, it wUd riplEs H 'pFp' kAriktD, wic iz hRdlI evD Vzd. anuHD plEs mFt bI H ` kI, wic iz At H top-left v mF kIbPd, t H left v H numbD-wun kI: HAt wUd not rikwFD H Sift kI.

/lFnal /fiS

----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mailto:mixsynth@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: 13 January 2000 5:27 pm
Subject: [shavian] Slash, not namer dot!

dC Yl (ispeSali font kriEtDz),

sumTiN F mFself hAv nevD komentid on: wic kI SUd bI Vzd t reprazent H 'nEmD dot'? "it's H 'slAS' kI", F hC V krF - but SUd it bI? a wFl bAk a fV pIpal pUt fPwDd prapOzalz saJestiN HAt H 'slAS' kAriktD stE on H 'slAS' kI n H nEmD dot bI mMvd t H Sift-g paziSan. F'm not SUD wF H nEmD dot iz in H plEs it iz in eniwE, but it iz rWli H Onli bAdli-plEst kAriktD in H set. it SUd bI posibal t reprazent H slAS kAriktD in /SEvian wiHQt hAviN t cEnJ fonts hyf wE TrM a tekst. /fil /driskal obviasli TYt His tM, sO hI inklMdid wun on H Sift-bAkslAS paziSan; it iz an imprMvmant, but not Yl H /SEvian fonts hAv it HX, sO it iznt rWli prAktikal t Vz.

sO, F saJest H nEmD dot bI mMvd t Sift-g n H slAS kAriktD bI pUt bAk t H slAS kI, Az px H ariJinal prapOzalz; sins H nEmD dot iznt veri muc Vzd in /SEvian teksts, it SUd not bI difikUlt t 'fFnd-n-riplEs' H kAriktD wiH 'Sift-g' in teksts Ylredi tFpt up.

it wUd bI gUd t sPt His wun Qt, sO wI kAn fxHD ridVs H nId t swop fonts wen trAnzlitDEtiN sumTiN, if not wFp it Qt.


/hV /bxkanhed
www.soundbox.freeuk.com <http://www.soundbox.freeuk.com>

________________________________

<http://click.egroups.com/1/631/4/_/54531/_/947809348/>

eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/shavian
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F must sE F lFk jP lyst saJescan (H ` kI). HAt wE H slAS kAriktD wUd bI pUt rFt bAk wX it biloNz. nO wun evD Vziz H ` kAriktD eniwE (hel, F dOnt Ivan nO hQ wun kUd Vz it).

wot sE jI, font dizFnDz?

/hV /bxkanhed
www.soundbox.freeuk.com <http://www.soundbox.freeuk.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Lionel Ghoti <mailto:lionel_ghoti@...>
To: Shavian eGroup <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: 13 January 2000 20:59
Subject: [shavian] Re: Slash, not namer dot!

F agrI HAt H slAS kI iz not H best plEs fP H nEmD-dot -- but wF cMz Sift-g Az its nV hOm? wX'z H nemonik sens in HAt? F prifx /filip /driskal's salMSan (Sift-bAkslAS), Az it kIps H nEmD-dot -- a simbal -- on a simbal kI. YlsO, it wUd riplEs H 'pFp' kAriktD, wic iz hRdlI evD Vzd. anuHD plEs mFt bI H ` kI, wic iz At H top-left v mF kIbPd, t H left v H numbD-wun kI: HAt wUd not rikwFD H Sift kI.

/lFnal /fiS

----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mailto:mixsynth@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: 13 January 2000 5:27 pm
Subject: [shavian] Slash, not namer dot!

dC Yl (ispeSali font kriEtDz),

sumTiN F mFself hAv nevD komentid on: wic kI SUd bI Vzd t reprazent H 'nEmD dot'? "it's H 'slAS' kI", F hC V krF - but SUd it bI? a wFl bAk a fV pIpal pUt fPwDd prapOzalz saJestiN HAt H 'slAS' kAriktD stE on H 'slAS' kI n H nEmD dot bI mMvd t H Sift-g paziSan. F'm not SUD wF H nEmD dot iz in H plEs it iz in eniwE, but it iz rWli H Onli bAdli-plEst kAriktD in H set. it SUd bI posibal t reprazent H slAS kAriktD in /SEvian wiHQt hAviN t cEnJ fonts hyf wE TrM a tekst. /fil /driskal obviasli TYt His tM, sO hI inklMdid wun on H Sift-bAkslAS paziSan; it iz an imprMvmant, but not Yl H /SEvian fonts hAv it HX, sO it iznt rWli prAktikal t Vz.

sO, F saJest H nEmD dot bI mMvd t Sift-g n H slAS kAriktD bI pUt bAk t H slAS kI, Az px H ariJinal prapOzalz; sins H nEmD dot iznt veri muc Vzd in /SEvian teksts, it SUd not bI difikUlt t 'fFnd-n-riplEs' H kAriktD wiH 'Sift-g' in teksts Ylredi tFpt up.

it wUd bI gUd t sPt His wun Qt, sO wI kAn fxHD ridVs H nId t swop fonts wen trAnzlitDEtiN sumTiN, if not wFp it Qt.


/hV /bxkanhed
www.soundbox.freeuk.com <http://www.soundbox.freeuk.com>

________________________________

<http://click.egroups.com/1/631/4/_/54531/_/947809348/>

eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/shavian
www.egroups.com <http://www.egroups.com> - Simplifying group communications


________________________________

<http://click.egroups.com/1/631/4/_/54531/_/947810388/>
eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/shavian
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Hi,

The ` character is not a good one to replace. Some of the texts I am working with contain that character. In general, my suggestion would be not to replace any character on the keyboard. Therefore, the best solution is to use one of the capital letter keys in my mind.

--
Scott Harrison

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Dear Lionel, Sorry. I've had a lapse of memory. What is the address of
your website? I am printing all of the Shavian documents I get on e-mail on
hard copy and assembling a "Shavian Reader." This is for myself and some
other people I know learning Shavian in the Seattle area. Dan
----------
>From: "Lionel Ghoti" <lionel_ghoti@...>
>To: <shavian@...>
>Subject: [shavian] Re: A little late for Xmas...
>Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000, 1:34 PM
>

>Scott,
>
>I've had problems distilling tables, too. I think the solution I found was
>to split my table up into two or three different bits, width-wise. Acrobat
>Distiller doesn't seem to like wide tables, but doesn't seem to mind tall
>ones. Don't know of any other distillers, though, sorry.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Scott Harrison <Scott_Harrison@...>
>To: <shavian@...>
>Sent: 12 January 2000 4:11 pm
>Subject: [shavian] A little late for Xmas...
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I have put The Gift of the Magi on my web site. Next comes A Christmas
>Carol (but not for at least a week).
>
>I have also created a PostScript file for the Periodic Table of Elements
>but cannot seem to distill it into a PDF properly. Does anyone know where
>I can try another distiller?
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/shavian/
>http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>

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Dear Philip, Great thanks for the Asterix books in Plattdeutsch. I got
them yesterday. They are wonderful. Is there growing interest in regional
dialects in Germany now? I will finish sending you the flat pages of
"Androcles" as soon as I unearth it. I'm an awful housekeeper, and am now
digging out because a friend is coming to visit for a few days. Cleaning is
more like an archaeological dig with me. I will send you the rest of my
xeroxed copy of the book soon. Thanks! Dan Szczurek
----------
>From: Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
>To: "'shavian@...'" <shavian@...>
>Subject: [shavian] Re: 'Androcles & the Lion' info?
>Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000, 5:40 AM
>

>Lee A. Miller wrote:
>> Advanced Book Exchange: http://www.abebooks.com/
>
>I got hold of one thanks to ABE (from Millenium Books in Canada somewhere).
>
>Cheers,
>Philip
>
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On 13 Jan 00, at 20:59, Lionel Ghoti wrote:

> anuHD plEs
> mFt bI H ` kI, wic iz At H top-left v mF kIbPd, t H left v H numbD-wun kI:
> HAt wUd not rikwFD H Sift kI.

>From the point of view of someone with a German keyboard, this is not
such a wonderful place, since (a) it's a shifted position for me
(shift+´, to the left of the backspace key) and (b) it's a "dead key" --
used for composing accented vowels such as à. Hence, to produce a
single ` I need to type the space bar afterwards, leading to two
keypresses. (pipe, |, is not that much better as it's right-alt-key +
key-next-to-the-left-shift-key: AltGr + <.)

For me, the degree sign works fine (shift + key-next-to-number-one)
which is not a dead key and is also not used for much. But that's just
me... :)

Cheers,
Philip
--
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----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel G. Szczurek <twojbrat@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: 14 January 2000 2:14 am
Subject: [shavian] Re: A little late for Xmas...


> Dear Lionel, Sorry. I've had a lapse of memory. What is the address of
> your website? I am printing all of the Shavian documents I get on e-mail on
> hard copy and assembling a "Shavian Reader." This is for myself and some
> other people I know learning Shavian in the Seattle area. Dan

www.shavian.f9.co.uk




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Would replacing the pipe character ('|', shift-backslash) with the namer-dot also cause international problems? My main objection to using a shifted letter like shift-G would be that it seems many people without the right fonts and/or software settle for reading our mailing-list messages [in a /rOman font, wic izn't verI hRd]. Adding a 'G' at the beginning of some words might make things a bit more confusing.

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Harrison <Scott_Harrison@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: 14 January 2000 12:44 am
Subject: [shavian] Re: Slash, not namer dot!


Hi,

The ` character is not a good one to replace. Some of the texts I am working with contain that character. In general, my suggestion would be not to replace any character on the keyboard. Therefore, the best solution is to use one of the capital letter keys in my mind.

--
Scott Harrison

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