Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

> Only thing is, we'd need a standard keyboard layout, much as the Shavian
fontage had the DeMeyre layout....
>
> D.M.Falk

I kept the DeMeyer layout, but added some things to the blank spots.
Jayson's going to add in the halved characters that I missed.
---
Shalom v'Tovah,
Jon Zuck
Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

It is more important to love much than to think much.
Always do that which most impels you to love.
--St. Teresa of Avila
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Falk" <quozl1@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Second Shaw Alphabet - New Font Uploaded


>
>
> On 11/26/00 at 9:18 PM Jon Zuck wrote:
>
> >Jayson, you beat me by about 15 minutes!
> >
> >AAAAAAAAARGH! (but thanks for your contribution!)
>
> Hey, upload yours, too! :) The more the merrier... :)
>

>
>
>


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The recreation of my font will take a while it'll be up possibly
tommorrow, if I can get access to a scranner. Is there an electronic
version of that book that Read wrote, because all I have is just 23
Pages from Coles Funny Picture Book Suprise Edition.

Jayson

--- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> > Only thing is, we'd need a standard keyboard layout, much as the
Shavian
> fontage had the DeMeyre layout....
> >
> > D.M.Falk
>
> I kept the DeMeyer layout, but added some things to the blank spots.
> Jayson's going to add in the halved characters that I missed.
> ---
> Shalom v'Tovah,
> Jon Zuck
> Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
>
> It is more important to love much than to think much.
> Always do that which most impels you to love.
> --St. Teresa of Avila
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dennis Falk" <quozl1@e...>
> To: <shavian@...>
> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 9:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [shavian] Second Shaw Alphabet - New Font Uploaded
>
>
> >
> >
> > On 11/26/00 at 9:18 PM Jon Zuck wrote:
> >
> > >Jayson, you beat me by about 15 minutes!
> > >
> > >AAAAAAAAARGH! (but thanks for your contribution!)
> >
> > Hey, upload yours, too! :) The more the merrier... :)
> >
>
> >
> >
> >


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> I was thinking of adding the Abbreviations in places such as Ä etc.

Great!

> Also is your capital W the abbreviation for Dr?
No, that's IAN, from First Shaw. Read didn't specify most of the combined
letters per se, but he drew them smoothly forming with Ray, so it seemed to
make sense to keep them. (And again, for consistency with the First Shaw
folks).


---
Shalom v'Tovah,
Jon Zuck
Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

It is more important to love much than to think much.
Always do that which most impels you to love.
--St. Teresa of Avila
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jayson Barber" <jaysonb@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:34 PM
Subject: [shavian] Re: New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please read.


> I was thinking of adding the Abbreviations in places such as Ä etc.
>
> Also is your capital W the abbreviation for Dr?
> --- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> > I've got Nul-Ray at two points, cap D and x. x is where ARRAY is
> from the
> > First Shaw mapping, and D where ERR was. That way, whoever wants to
> > transcribe into Second Shaw from first only needs to change the
> font.
> >
> > Adding abbreviations and the top-half letters is great, but where
> do you see
> > the room?
> > ---
> > Shalom v'Tovah,
> > Jon Zuck
> > Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
> >
> > It is more important to love much than to think much.
> > Always do that which most impels you to love.
> > --St. Teresa of Avila
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jayson Barber" <jaysonb@m...>
> > To: <shavian@...>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:11 PM
> > Subject: [shavian] Re: New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please read.
> >
> >
> > > Jon.
> > >
> > > Well.... I've decided after long and hard thought (2 minutes) that
> > > I'll make MY font comply with your and I'll add in the
> abreviations
> > > (eg Mr and Mrs) and the half letters, I also noticed that on yours
> > > you have the Nul-Ray combination (Gr on my font or x on yours)
> why is
> > > that? Any way, we'll work something out. Interested in making a
> > > Second Shaw webpage?
> > >
> > > Jayson
> > > --- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Shalom v'Tovah,
> > > > Jon Zuck
> > > > Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
> > > >
> > > > I kept the same mappings which we've been using, so anyone who's
> > > comfortable typing in First Shaw should have no problems here.
> Also,
> > > simply changing the font from any First Shaw font to Jerome should
> > > convert with no problems.
> > > >
> > > > I attempted to make this a font with as many of the features of
> > > what Read called
> > > > "Senior Quickscript" as possible.
> > > >
> > > > Hence, although "Junior Quickscript" does not specify most of
> the
> > > combined forms, here all (except ERR, which was discarded) are
> > > present, although some look different.
> > > >
> > > > Several phonemes are represented twice:
> > > > EARTH (formerly ARRAY) supersedes ERR. Hence it appears in its
> > > familiar position, X, and at D, where it supplants old ERR
> > > >
> > > > There are two forms of NUN: n, and G. Read felt it was
> worthwhile
> > > to have and upward and downward version of it for better
> connection.
> > > Selecting the appropriate form letter can give a very cursive
> feel.
> > > >
> > > > There are two forms of ADO: Again, an upward, and a downward
> form;
> > > the familiar upward form is still at a; the downward form (looks
> like
> > > old MIME) is at u and replaces UP
> > > >
> > > > Continuing in this vein, I created a downward form of EAT,
> > > mirroring his upward form. As an experimental letter, I put it to
> the
> > > side at the left brace.(})
> > > > For more connected writing, Shaw created optional alternate
> written
> > > forms of W, D, and Z, consisting of just the deep part of those
> > > letters. W before an upward ADO, for instance, will create an
> > > unbroken line which starts as W and curves into ADO.
> > > > The half D and half Z are suggested as aesthetic possibities
> when
> > > ending words.
> > > >
> > > > For instance, added worlds can be written normally: Add wDldz,
> or
> > > with the half-letters as
> > > > ad{ KDldL (You need to install the font to view this
> > > > These half- letters are at K, L, and the right {, respectively
> > > >
> > > > Read also created halved forms of three tall letters, T, P, and
> H.
> > > They are not represented here because of both 1) lack of room, and
> > > 2) in my opinion, they are very ugly and do not contribute in any
> > > useful way to a printed version of the alphabet, although they are
> > > undoubtedly useful in handwriting.
> > > >
> > > > Read's parentheses have been incorporated. This innovation was
> to
> > > avoid confusion with the rounded tall and deep letters.
> > > >
> > > > More info coming soon.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It is more important to love much than to think much.
> > > > Always do that which most impels you to love.
> > > > --St. Teresa of Avila
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>


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No electronic version of it yet. (Now remember, I said YET.) :-) I just
got it in the mail three days ago, along with Cole's.

Honestly, Since I came across Shavian last month, I had almost given up on
it. I found the letters difficult to write, didn't connect well, very
dyslexic. But in Second Shaw, it's a world of difference! It's far more
easy to write, more letters have distinct shapes, they can connect like
handwriting or a cursive printed script like Arabic. It's truly workable
for private use.

Second Shaw is something I think I'll be using for a long time.

Well, I'm not in Australia. Time to go to bed.
---
Shalom v'Tovah,
Jon Zuck
Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

It is more important to love much than to think much.
Always do that which most impels you to love.
--St. Teresa of Avila
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jayson Barber" <jaysonb@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:48 PM
Subject: [shavian] Re: Second Shaw Alphabet - New Font Uploaded


> The recreation of my font will take a while it'll be up possibly
> tommorrow, if I can get access to a scranner. Is there an electronic
> version of that book that Read wrote, because all I have is just 23
> Pages from Coles Funny Picture Book Suprise Edition.
>
> Jayson
>
> --- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> > > Only thing is, we'd need a standard keyboard layout, much as the
> Shavian
> > fontage had the DeMeyre layout....
> > >
> > > D.M.Falk
> >
> > I kept the DeMeyer layout, but added some things to the blank spots.
> > Jayson's going to add in the halved characters that I missed.
> > ---
> > Shalom v'Tovah,
> > Jon Zuck
> > Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
> >
> > It is more important to love much than to think much.
> > Always do that which most impels you to love.
> > --St. Teresa of Avila
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dennis Falk" <quozl1@e...>
> > To: <shavian@...>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 9:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: [shavian] Second Shaw Alphabet - New Font Uploaded
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/26/00 at 9:18 PM Jon Zuck wrote:
> > >
> > > >Jayson, you beat me by about 15 minutes!
> > > >
> > > >AAAAAAAAARGH! (but thanks for your contribution!)
> > >
> > > Hey, upload yours, too! :) The more the merrier... :)
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>


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Oh, ok it almost looks like the abreviation for Dr.
So have you used alot of First Shaw in your Second Shaw font, because
there are many letters that are unfamiliar to me.

Jayson

--- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
>
>
> > I was thinking of adding the Abbreviations in places such as Ä
etc.
>
> Great!
>
> > Also is your capital W the abbreviation for Dr?
> No, that's IAN, from First Shaw. Read didn't specify most of the
combined
> letters per se, but he drew them smoothly forming with Ray, so it
seemed to
> make sense to keep them. (And again, for consistency with the
First Shaw
> folks).
>
>
> ---
> Shalom v'Tovah,
> Jon Zuck
> Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
>
> It is more important to love much than to think much.
> Always do that which most impels you to love.
> --St. Teresa of Avila
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jayson Barber" <jaysonb@m...>
> To: <shavian@...>
> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:34 PM
> Subject: [shavian] Re: New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please read.
>
>
> > I was thinking of adding the Abbreviations in places such as Ä
etc.
> >
> > Also is your capital W the abbreviation for Dr?
> > --- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> > > I've got Nul-Ray at two points, cap D and x. x is where ARRAY
is
> > from the
> > > First Shaw mapping, and D where ERR was. That way, whoever
wants to
> > > transcribe into Second Shaw from first only needs to change the
> > font.
> > >
> > > Adding abbreviations and the top-half letters is great, but
where
> > do you see
> > > the room?
> > > ---
> > > Shalom v'Tovah,
> > > Jon Zuck
> > > Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
> > >
> > > It is more important to love much than to think much.
> > > Always do that which most impels you to love.
> > > --St. Teresa of Avila
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jayson Barber" <jaysonb@m...>
> > > To: <shavian@...>
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:11 PM
> > > Subject: [shavian] Re: New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please
read.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Jon.
> > > >
> > > > Well.... I've decided after long and hard thought (2 minutes)
that
> > > > I'll make MY font comply with your and I'll add in the
> > abreviations
> > > > (eg Mr and Mrs) and the half letters, I also noticed that on
yours
> > > > you have the Nul-Ray combination (Gr on my font or x on yours)
> > why is
> > > > that? Any way, we'll work something out. Interested in making
a
> > > > Second Shaw webpage?
> > > >
> > > > Jayson
> > > > --- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Shalom v'Tovah,
> > > > > Jon Zuck
> > > > > Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
> > > > >
> > > > > I kept the same mappings which we've been using, so anyone
who's
> > > > comfortable typing in First Shaw should have no problems here.
> > Also,
> > > > simply changing the font from any First Shaw font to Jerome
should
> > > > convert with no problems.
> > > > >
> > > > > I attempted to make this a font with as many of the
features of
> > > > what Read called
> > > > > "Senior Quickscript" as possible.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hence, although "Junior Quickscript" does not specify most
of
> > the
> > > > combined forms, here all (except ERR, which was discarded) are
> > > > present, although some look different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Several phonemes are represented twice:
> > > > > EARTH (formerly ARRAY) supersedes ERR. Hence it appears in
its
> > > > familiar position, X, and at D, where it supplants old ERR
> > > > >
> > > > > There are two forms of NUN: n, and G. Read felt it was
> > worthwhile
> > > > to have and upward and downward version of it for better
> > connection.
> > > > Selecting the appropriate form letter can give a very cursive
> > feel.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are two forms of ADO: Again, an upward, and a downward
> > form;
> > > > the familiar upward form is still at a; the downward form
(looks
> > like
> > > > old MIME) is at u and replaces UP
> > > > >
> > > > > Continuing in this vein, I created a downward form of EAT,
> > > > mirroring his upward form. As an experimental letter, I put
it to
> > the
> > > > side at the left brace.(})
> > > > > For more connected writing, Shaw created optional alternate
> > written
> > > > forms of W, D, and Z, consisting of just the deep part of
those
> > > > letters. W before an upward ADO, for instance, will create an
> > > > unbroken line which starts as W and curves into ADO.
> > > > > The half D and half Z are suggested as aesthetic possibities
> > when
> > > > ending words.
> > > > >
> > > > > For instance, added worlds can be written normally: Add
wDldz,
> > or
> > > > with the half-letters as
> > > > > ad{ KDldL (You need to install the font to view this
> > > > > These half- letters are at K, L, and the right {,
respectively
> > > > >
> > > > > Read also created halved forms of three tall letters, T, P,
and
> > H.
> > > > They are not represented here because of both 1) lack of
room, and
> > > > 2) in my opinion, they are very ugly and do not contribute in
any
> > > > useful way to a printed version of the alphabet, although
they are
> > > > undoubtedly useful in handwriting.
> > > > >
> > > > > Read's parentheses have been incorporated. This innovation
was
> > to
> > > > avoid confusion with the rounded tall and deep letters.
> > > > >
> > > > > More info coming soon.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It is more important to love much than to think much.
> > > > > Always do that which most impels you to love.
> > > > > --St. Teresa of Avila
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >


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It's the fast, easy way to get online, to promote your business,
and to sell your products and services. Try Bigstep.com now.
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---------------------------------------------------------------------_->

Exactly, he uses all the combined forms from First Shaw in his Quickscript
manual, but never discusses them as such, he just uses them, and they just
happen in handwriting. I don't know if Cole was familiar with First Shaw at
all, so HE doesn't discuss them in the picture book. But unless they're
part of the font, they won't "just happen" for a computer, and some of the
connectedness would be lost.

---
Shalom v'Tovah,
Jon Zuck
Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

It is more important to love much than to think much.
Always do that which most impels you to love.
--St. Teresa of Avila
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jayson Barber" <jaysonb@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 11:18 PM
Subject: [shavian] Re: New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please read.


> Oh, ok it almost looks like the abreviation for Dr.
> So have you used alot of First Shaw in your Second Shaw font, because
> there are many letters that are unfamiliar to me.
>
> Jayson
>
> --- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I was thinking of adding the Abbreviations in places such as Ä
> etc.
> >
> > Great!
> >
> > > Also is your capital W the abbreviation for Dr?
> > No, that's IAN, from First Shaw. Read didn't specify most of the
> combined
> > letters per se, but he drew them smoothly forming with Ray, so it
> seemed to
> > make sense to keep them. (And again, for consistency with the
> First Shaw
> > folks).
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Shalom v'Tovah,
> > Jon Zuck
> > Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
> >
> > It is more important to love much than to think much.
> > Always do that which most impels you to love.
> > --St. Teresa of Avila
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jayson Barber" <jaysonb@m...>
> > To: <shavian@...>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:34 PM
> > Subject: [shavian] Re: New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please read.
> >
> >
> > > I was thinking of adding the Abbreviations in places such as Ä
> etc.
> > >
> > > Also is your capital W the abbreviation for Dr?
> > > --- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> > > > I've got Nul-Ray at two points, cap D and x. x is where ARRAY
> is
> > > from the
> > > > First Shaw mapping, and D where ERR was. That way, whoever
> wants to
> > > > transcribe into Second Shaw from first only needs to change the
> > > font.
> > > >
> > > > Adding abbreviations and the top-half letters is great, but
> where
> > > do you see
> > > > the room?
> > > > ---
> > > > Shalom v'Tovah,
> > > > Jon Zuck
> > > > Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
> > > >
> > > > It is more important to love much than to think much.
> > > > Always do that which most impels you to love.
> > > > --St. Teresa of Avila
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Jayson Barber" <jaysonb@m...>
> > > > To: <shavian@...>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:11 PM
> > > > Subject: [shavian] Re: New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please
> read.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Jon.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well.... I've decided after long and hard thought (2 minutes)
> that
> > > > > I'll make MY font comply with your and I'll add in the
> > > abreviations
> > > > > (eg Mr and Mrs) and the half letters, I also noticed that on
> yours
> > > > > you have the Nul-Ray combination (Gr on my font or x on yours)
> > > why is
> > > > > that? Any way, we'll work something out. Interested in making
> a
> > > > > Second Shaw webpage?
> > > > >
> > > > > Jayson
> > > > > --- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Shalom v'Tovah,
> > > > > > Jon Zuck
> > > > > > Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I kept the same mappings which we've been using, so anyone
> who's
> > > > > comfortable typing in First Shaw should have no problems here.
> > > Also,
> > > > > simply changing the font from any First Shaw font to Jerome
> should
> > > > > convert with no problems.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I attempted to make this a font with as many of the
> features of
> > > > > what Read called
> > > > > > "Senior Quickscript" as possible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hence, although "Junior Quickscript" does not specify most
> of
> > > the
> > > > > combined forms, here all (except ERR, which was discarded) are
> > > > > present, although some look different.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Several phonemes are represented twice:
> > > > > > EARTH (formerly ARRAY) supersedes ERR. Hence it appears in
> its
> > > > > familiar position, X, and at D, where it supplants old ERR
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are two forms of NUN: n, and G. Read felt it was
> > > worthwhile
> > > > > to have and upward and downward version of it for better
> > > connection.
> > > > > Selecting the appropriate form letter can give a very cursive
> > > feel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are two forms of ADO: Again, an upward, and a downward
> > > form;
> > > > > the familiar upward form is still at a; the downward form
> (looks
> > > like
> > > > > old MIME) is at u and replaces UP
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Continuing in this vein, I created a downward form of EAT,
> > > > > mirroring his upward form. As an experimental letter, I put
> it to
> > > the
> > > > > side at the left brace.(})
> > > > > > For more connected writing, Shaw created optional alternate
> > > written
> > > > > forms of W, D, and Z, consisting of just the deep part of
> those
> > > > > letters. W before an upward ADO, for instance, will create an
> > > > > unbroken line which starts as W and curves into ADO.
> > > > > > The half D and half Z are suggested as aesthetic possibities
> > > when
> > > > > ending words.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For instance, added worlds can be written normally: Add
> wDldz,
> > > or
> > > > > with the half-letters as
> > > > > > ad{ KDldL (You need to install the font to view this
> > > > > > These half- letters are at K, L, and the right {,
> respectively
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Read also created halved forms of three tall letters, T, P,
> and
> > > H.
> > > > > They are not represented here because of both 1) lack of
> room, and
> > > > > 2) in my opinion, they are very ugly and do not contribute in
> any
> > > > > useful way to a printed version of the alphabet, although
> they are
> > > > > undoubtedly useful in handwriting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Read's parentheses have been incorporated. This innovation
> was
> > > to
> > > > > avoid confusion with the rounded tall and deep letters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > More info coming soon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is more important to love much than to think much.
> > > > > > Always do that which most impels you to love.
> > > > > > --St. Teresa of Avila
> > > > >
> > > > >
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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the shavian
group.

File : /fonts/macintosh/jerome.ttf
Uploaded by : frimmin@...
Description : Second Shaw Font. Not sure if it works for Mac, but I hope so

You can access this file at the URL

http://www.egroups.com/files/shavian/fonts/macintosh/jerome%2Ettf

To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit

http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html


Regards,

frimmin@...





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The lastest version of my Shavian translator program is now available at
http://www.teleport.com/~fiziwig/xlate.html

It has been updated to allow user selection of the target font and can now
be used with Shavian, Quickscript, or any other spelling system such as J.
G. Dutton's (non-phonetic) Speedwords
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/2464/ ).

[An aside from a letter to Dutton from Shaw regarding Speedwords:
"Not only is the Speedwords ideography scientifically ingenious, but it is
very strong on the economic point, so stupidly neglected by all your
predecessors. What I am interested in is the enormous quantity of
unnecessary manual labour wasted every day in writing, typing, and printing.
When we are at peace and The Times is in full blast, it often contains a
million words a day. A saving of even ten per cent, would leave 100,000
fewer words to write and set up, to say nothing of a saving in paper." --
G. Bernard Shaw]




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There have been a lot of suggestions lately for which Shavian letters to omit, and which to change and what sort of spelling conventions should be observed and so on. In addition, Quickscript rules have been introduced and recomended for use with Shavian.

I’d like to propose something considerably less drastic than a complete revision of the system, which I believe to be unnecessary. What I’m proposing is a revision of the pronunciation guide to make it more stable with respect to differing dialects of English. I am proposing that the vowel sounds originally intended by the designer be restored, and that better model words be chosen to represent those sounds to speakers of any dialect.

Rather than the terse “o=on” entry found in the present guide, it should be explained that the British pronunciation of “on” might more accurately be represented to an American speaker by the “aw” of “lawn”. As far as I can tell “lawn” is pronounced the same in both dialects, and because of that I propose that a more correct reading guide entry would be “o= aw as in lawn”, with the caveat that this is an approximate representation at best.

This would require that Amercian users of Shavian would have to change some of the ways in which they use “o”. I suppose that could be justified by observing that American users have always misunderstood the sound of that letter since they pronounce the model word “on” differently than the originator of the script did.

Similar “correction” could be introduced to the reading guide so that we would all at least be in agreement as to the general sound of each vowel. Shavian is not meant to be another IPA designed to capture evey possible subtle verbal nuance, so the strict phoneticism has to be relaxed, at least slightly. But I do believe we could reach some agreement as to the approximate vowel sounds that would be in closer accord with the designer’s original intention.

==gary


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Excellent idea, Gary.
In the case of the Second Shaw, the need is even more acute. In
the Quickscript Manual (QM), Read changed the names of the letters, to
know advantage that I can see. Furthermore, some people know Second
Shaw only from Cole's Funny Picture Book (let's just call it CFPB),
which uses awful imitative names that tell nothing, (like OOD and
OOT).

Furthermore, the exact contents of the Second Shaw Alphabet were not
rigidly defined. CFPB introduces one new character which I believe
could cause endless confusion, and drops one character from QM, which
many people might feel is useful.

Later tonight, expect a post from me with a detailed proposal for
standardizing names for the Second Shaw Alphabet (which might even be
useful in your consideration for First Shaw names), as well as an
attempt to clarify what Second Shaw really contains, distinctions
between letters, ligatures, and alternate forms, etc.

I think we're at another milestone in Shaw Alphabet history--if we
think and plan carefully, we might be able to bring Second Shaw into a
better state of affairs than it was when Read died.

BTW: Second Shaw sounds derivative and "secondary," and
Quickscript sounds like a shorthand that would never be worthy
of print or typefaces. Would it be worth the trouble to
consider a new name for this alphabet, or should we leave well
enough alone. Roger, Paige, Jayson, anyone?

Gary wisely wrote:



--- In shavian@..., "Gary Shannon" <reboot@r...> wrote:
> There have been a lot of suggestions lately for which Shavian
letters to omit, and which to change and what sort of spelling
conventions should be observed and so on. In addition, Quickscript
rules have been introduced and recomended for use with Shavian.
>
> I'd like to propose something considerably less drastic than a
complete revision of the system, which I believe to be unnecessary.
What I'm proposing is a revision of the pronunciation guide to make it
more stable with respect to differing dialects of English. I am
proposing that the vowel sounds originally intended by the designer be
restored, and that better model words be chosen to represent those
sounds to speakers of any dialect.
>
> Rather than the terse "o=on" entry found in the present guide, it
should be explained that the British pronunciation of "on" might more
accurately be represented to an American speaker by the "aw" of
"lawn". As far as I can tell "lawn" is pronounced the same in both
dialects, and because of that I propose that a more correct reading
guide entry would be "o= aw as in lawn", with the caveat that this is
an approximate representation at best.
>
> This would require that Amercian users of Shavian would have to
change some of the ways in which they use "o". I suppose that could be
justified by observing that American users have always misunderstood
the sound of that letter since they pronounce the model word "on"
differently than the originator of the script did.
>
> Similar "correction" could be introduced to the reading guide so
that we would all at least be in agreement as to the general sound of
each vowel. Shavian is not meant to be another IPA designed to
capture evey possible subtle verbal nuance, so the strict phoneticism
has to be relaxed, at least slightly. But I do believe we could reach
some agreement as to the approximate vowel sounds that would be in
closer accord with the designer's original intention.
>
> ==gary


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