Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

From: Jayson Barber
Date: 2000-11-27 02:46:27 #
Subject: [shavian] Re: Second Shaw Alphabet - New Font Uploaded

Toggle Shavian
I noticed that my font is more of a Handwritting format and your's is
a computer format. I think it would be best if we talked about the
distribution of each character to the traditional alphabet, so that
it doesn't get too confusing. I'm about to upload a PDF file with a
list of how my letters are associated to the alphabet and each
letter's sound.

COOL

Jayson

--- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> Jayson, you beat me by about 15 minutes!
>
> AAAAAAAAARGH! (but thanks for your contribution!)
> ---
> Shalom v'Tovah,
> Jon Zuck
> Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
>
> It is more important to love much than to think much.
> Always do that which most impels you to love.
> --St. Teresa of Avila
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jayson Barber" <jaysonb@m...>
> To: <shavian@...>
> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 8:58 PM
> Subject: [shavian] Second Shaw Alphabet - New Font Uploaded
>
>
> > The Second Shaw Alpahbet (aka QuickScript) has been created and
> > uploaded. It may have a few problems and a titled The Second Shaw
> > Alphabet in Conventional Alphabetical Order for Writer Reference
(New
> > letters grouped with Best-Associated Traditional Letters) will be
> > uploaded to the texts section in a couple of hourse (it is in PDF
> > format).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >


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From: Dennis Falk
Date: 2000-11-27 02:47:44 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Second Shaw Alphabet - New Font Uploaded

Toggle Shavian
On 11/26/00 at 9:18 PM Jon Zuck wrote:

>Jayson, you beat me by about 15 minutes!
>
>AAAAAAAAARGH! (but thanks for your contribution!)

Hey, upload yours, too! :) The more the merrier... :)

Only thing is, we'd need a standard keyboard layout, much as the Shavian fontage had the DeMeyre layout....

D.M.Falk




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From: shavian@...
Date: 2000-11-27 02:56:47 #
Subject: [shavian] New file uploaded to shavian

Toggle Shavian
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the shavian
group.

File : /texts/second.pdf
Uploaded by : jaysonb@...
Description : Second Shaw - Comparison to Traditional Letters

You can access this file at the URL

http://www.egroups.com/files/shavian/texts/second%2Epdf

To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit

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Regards,

jaysonb@...





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From: Jon Zuck
Date: 2000-11-27 02:59:33 #
Subject: [shavian] New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please read.

Toggle Shavian
---
Shalom v'Tovah,
Jon Zuck
Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

I kept the same mappings which we've been using, so anyone who's comfortable typing in First Shaw should have no problems here. Also, simply changing the font from any First Shaw font to Jerome should convert with no problems.

I attempted to make this a font with as many of the features of what Read called
"Senior Quickscript" as possible.

Hence, although "Junior Quickscript" does not specify most of the combined forms, here all (except ERR, which was discarded) are present, although some look different.

Several phonemes are represented twice:
EARTH (formerly ARRAY) supersedes ERR. Hence it appears in its familiar position, X, and at D, where it supplants old ERR

There are two forms of NUN: n, and G. Read felt it was worthwhile to have and upward and downward version of it for better connection. Selecting the appropriate form letter can give a very cursive feel.

There are two forms of ADO: Again, an upward, and a downward form; the familiar upward form is still at a; the downward form (looks like old MIME) is at u and replaces UP

Continuing in this vein, I created a downward form of EAT, mirroring his upward form. As an experimental letter, I put it to the side at the left brace.(})
For more connected writing, Shaw created optional alternate written forms of W, D, and Z, consisting of just the deep part of those letters. W before an upward ADO, for instance, will create an unbroken line which starts as W and curves into ADO.
The half D and half Z are suggested as aesthetic possibities when ending words.

For instance, added worlds can be written normally: Add wDldz, or with the half-letters as
ad{ KDldL (You need to install the font to view this
These half- letters are at K, L, and the right {, respectively

Read also created halved forms of three tall letters, T, P, and H. They are not represented here because of both 1) lack of room, and 2) in my opinion, they are very ugly and do not contribute in any useful way to a printed version of the alphabet, although they are undoubtedly useful in handwriting.

Read's parentheses have been incorporated. This innovation was to avoid confusion with the rounded tall and deep letters.

More info coming soon.



It is more important to love much than to think much.
Always do that which most impels you to love.
--St. Teresa of Avila

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From: Jayson Barber
Date: 2000-11-27 03:11:46 #
Subject: [shavian] Re: New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please read.

Toggle Shavian
Jon.

Well.... I've decided after long and hard thought (2 minutes) that
I'll make MY font comply with your and I'll add in the abreviations
(eg Mr and Mrs) and the half letters, I also noticed that on yours
you have the Nul-Ray combination (Gr on my font or x on yours) why is
that? Any way, we'll work something out. Interested in making a
Second Shaw webpage?

Jayson
--- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
>
> ---
> Shalom v'Tovah,
> Jon Zuck
> Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
>
> I kept the same mappings which we've been using, so anyone who's
comfortable typing in First Shaw should have no problems here. Also,
simply changing the font from any First Shaw font to Jerome should
convert with no problems.
>
> I attempted to make this a font with as many of the features of
what Read called
> "Senior Quickscript" as possible.
>
> Hence, although "Junior Quickscript" does not specify most of the
combined forms, here all (except ERR, which was discarded) are
present, although some look different.
>
> Several phonemes are represented twice:
> EARTH (formerly ARRAY) supersedes ERR. Hence it appears in its
familiar position, X, and at D, where it supplants old ERR
>
> There are two forms of NUN: n, and G. Read felt it was worthwhile
to have and upward and downward version of it for better connection.
Selecting the appropriate form letter can give a very cursive feel.
>
> There are two forms of ADO: Again, an upward, and a downward form;
the familiar upward form is still at a; the downward form (looks like
old MIME) is at u and replaces UP
>
> Continuing in this vein, I created a downward form of EAT,
mirroring his upward form. As an experimental letter, I put it to the
side at the left brace.(})
> For more connected writing, Shaw created optional alternate written
forms of W, D, and Z, consisting of just the deep part of those
letters. W before an upward ADO, for instance, will create an
unbroken line which starts as W and curves into ADO.
> The half D and half Z are suggested as aesthetic possibities when
ending words.
>
> For instance, added worlds can be written normally: Add wDldz, or
with the half-letters as
> ad{ KDldL (You need to install the font to view this
> These half- letters are at K, L, and the right {, respectively
>
> Read also created halved forms of three tall letters, T, P, and H.
They are not represented here because of both 1) lack of room, and
2) in my opinion, they are very ugly and do not contribute in any
useful way to a printed version of the alphabet, although they are
undoubtedly useful in handwriting.
>
> Read's parentheses have been incorporated. This innovation was to
avoid confusion with the rounded tall and deep letters.
>
> More info coming soon.
>
>
>
> It is more important to love much than to think much.
> Always do that which most impels you to love.
> --St. Teresa of Avila


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From: shavian@...
Date: 2000-11-27 03:20:39 #
Subject: [shavian] New file uploaded to shavian

Toggle Shavian
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the shavian
group.

File : /images/prayer.jpg
Uploaded by : frimmin@...
Description : Jerome Second Shaw font

You can access this file at the URL

http://www.egroups.com/files/shavian/images/prayer%2Ejpg

To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit

http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html


Regards,

frimmin@...





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From: Jon Zuck
Date: 2000-11-27 03:24:14 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Shaw's Alphabet & Quikscript

Toggle Shavian
Great job Paige! I was just about to post something like that myself!

Thanks
---
Shalom v'Tovah,
Jon Zuck
Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

It is more important to love much than to think much.
Always do that which most impels you to love.
--St. Teresa of Avila
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Paige Gabhart" <pgabhart@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 9:44 PM
Subject: [shavian] Shaw's Alphabet & Quikscript


> I had been working on the following today and after reading the e-mails
> thought I would throw it in the mix. Because it is a work in progress and
> intended for the general public, I modified it somewhat for this group.]
>
> KINGSLEY READ AND QUIKSCRIPT
>
> Kingsley Read worked to promote Shaw's Alphabet after the distribution of
> Androcles and the Lion. A paperback version was printed. Read worked
with
> a number of English-speaking volunteers from around the world who began
> using Shaw's Alphabet in handwritten correspondence to see how easy it was
> to learn and to read and how well it enabled them to communicate with
their
> various accents.
> After this period of testing the alphabet in actual use, Read began to see
> that certain changes would improve the alphabet. All of the changes Read
> made were carefully thought out and clearly improved the utility and, it
> seems fair to say, the intrinsic beauty of the script. Read wrote a
> twenty-six page manual entitled "Quikscript ITS ALPHABET AND MANUAL with
a
> general introduction to reformed alphabetic writings." The manual bears
no
> copyright date. Its price was 3s. 6d or 50 cents.
> One might think of Shaw's Alphabet as the beta version of Quikscript. Due
> to the wide distribution of Adrocles and the Lion printed in Shaw's
> Alphabet and the relatively limited distribution of Read's Quikscript
> Manual, in the years since Read's death and now with the burgeoning of the
> internet, knowledge of the beta version of his alphabet has begun to
spread
> slowly, while Quikscript remains virtually unknown -- a result I believe
he
> would have been displeased with.
> The willingness to promote the use of Shaw's Alphabet, which I have
> encountered on the internet among its adherents, when its devisor had
> revised and improved it, seems ill-founded. What would we think if in the
> late 1940s, NBC had the technology of color TV perfected and ready for use
> but decided to shelve it because some people had already seen a few black
> and white broadcasts and thought them adequate. This would have made no
> more sense than it would to continue to promote the initial form of an
> alphabet with infelicities that became apparent to its devisor through
> actual testing and use, when its improved descendent exists along with a
> manual explaining many of Read's thoughts about the best way to use it.
> At this time, knowledge of Shaw's Alphabet among the public is still
> almost non-existent so it would not be much of a setback for true
believers
> to begin promoting Quikscript through the tool of the internet rather than
> continuing to promote the beta version of Read's work because "We've
> already learned it!" This makes even less sense than the United States'
> citizens continuing animosity towards and lack of interest in the metric
> system because they "already know the English system" and do not care how
> the rest of the world measures things. They are correct that their fellow
> citizens still use the English system. But in this case, virtually nobody
> knows Shaw's Alphabet so there is no vested interest of any size. We
> should promote the best alternative alphabet we have -- not the beta
version.
>
> COMPARISON BETWEEN SHAW'S ALPHABET & ITS SUCCESSOR -- QUIKSCRIPT
>
> [This section is intended to discuss the differences between Shaw's
> Alphabet and Quikscript. Unfortunately, it is not complete now so here
are
> some quick thoughts.]
>
> 1. The changes Read made enable the Quikscript writer to write in a more
> fluid manner, without pen lifts, similar to cursive roman writing, because
> more of the letters end at the base line or mid-line. The fact that
> letters can be joined more easily has no effect on a printed form of the
> alphabet. A few of the letters have an alternative that brings the pen
> back up to the base line. Again, this is not a big deal in reading, nor
> does it affect the printed form.
>
> 2. Changes and minor alterations to the alphabet:
> a. "loll" is changed to foster writing from left to right.
> b. "bib" and "gag" are altered to end on the base line.
> c. "tot" loses the barb to make connections easier.
> d. the letters for "thigh" and "they" become"fee" and "vow" respectively
> (with "th" sounds given similar, simpler forms.)
> e. "yea" made vertical with a loop at the top.
> f. "wh" letter form added recognizing that many English speakers use this
> phoneme. (the change is a barb on the "woe," a structural equivalent to
> the barb turning "sure" into "church.")
> g. "ha" is changed to mirror image of "peep." (rotated about vertical
axis)
> h. "eat" modified to make connection on base line.
> i. "age" and "ice" remain mirror images of each other but are changed by
> adding a loop at the top fostering left to right writing.
> j. "up" is discarded and no longer looks so similar to "up." (I have not
> missed it in my writing.)
> k. "out" and "oil" remain mirror images, but they are simplied in form
> with loops on top. (I always found these letters awkward to write.)
> l. "ah" and "awe" are changed to the forms for "mime" and "none"
> respectively. (I believe this change was made because they are sounds
used
> less frequently than "m" and "n," and are not as likely to be confused
with
> "ash" and "on." (a problem I noticed with the font I was using to read
the
> recent posts)
> m. "are," "or" and "air" are discarded. Those sounds are made with
> digraphs: "ah" + "roar," "awe" + "roar" and "age" + "roar."
> n. "urge" is discarded and "array" is written as a digraph of "ado" +
"roar."
> o. "yew" is still written as a digraph of "yea" + "ooze."
> p. "ear" and "ian" are discarded.
> q. "measure" is altered to bring its tail back to the base line.
>
> 3. One of the most innovative changes Read made in Quikscript was to
> permit the use of half-letters for the following consonants: "h," "t,"
> "p," "d," "z" and "w." Read did not include "wh," or "y," but there is no
> reason they should not be used in the same manner.
>
> These half-letters join with vowels and other consonants very readily and
> provide distinctive and elegant word-shapes for use in handwriting. Now
> with the increasing ubiquity of computers and their flexibility, it should
> be possible to use the half-letters with word processors as well.
>
>
> [This was written fairly quickly, so I beg your indulgence for any errors
> caused by haste.]
>
>
> Paige
>
>
>
>
>


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From: Jon Zuck
Date: 2000-11-27 03:28:19 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please read.

Toggle Shavian
I've got Nul-Ray at two points, cap D and x. x is where ARRAY is from the
First Shaw mapping, and D where ERR was. That way, whoever wants to
transcribe into Second Shaw from first only needs to change the font.

Adding abbreviations and the top-half letters is great, but where do you see
the room?
---
Shalom v'Tovah,
Jon Zuck
Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

It is more important to love much than to think much.
Always do that which most impels you to love.
--St. Teresa of Avila
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jayson Barber" <jaysonb@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:11 PM
Subject: [shavian] Re: New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please read.


> Jon.
>
> Well.... I've decided after long and hard thought (2 minutes) that
> I'll make MY font comply with your and I'll add in the abreviations
> (eg Mr and Mrs) and the half letters, I also noticed that on yours
> you have the Nul-Ray combination (Gr on my font or x on yours) why is
> that? Any way, we'll work something out. Interested in making a
> Second Shaw webpage?
>
> Jayson
> --- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> >
> > ---
> > Shalom v'Tovah,
> > Jon Zuck
> > Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
> >
> > I kept the same mappings which we've been using, so anyone who's
> comfortable typing in First Shaw should have no problems here. Also,
> simply changing the font from any First Shaw font to Jerome should
> convert with no problems.
> >
> > I attempted to make this a font with as many of the features of
> what Read called
> > "Senior Quickscript" as possible.
> >
> > Hence, although "Junior Quickscript" does not specify most of the
> combined forms, here all (except ERR, which was discarded) are
> present, although some look different.
> >
> > Several phonemes are represented twice:
> > EARTH (formerly ARRAY) supersedes ERR. Hence it appears in its
> familiar position, X, and at D, where it supplants old ERR
> >
> > There are two forms of NUN: n, and G. Read felt it was worthwhile
> to have and upward and downward version of it for better connection.
> Selecting the appropriate form letter can give a very cursive feel.
> >
> > There are two forms of ADO: Again, an upward, and a downward form;
> the familiar upward form is still at a; the downward form (looks like
> old MIME) is at u and replaces UP
> >
> > Continuing in this vein, I created a downward form of EAT,
> mirroring his upward form. As an experimental letter, I put it to the
> side at the left brace.(})
> > For more connected writing, Shaw created optional alternate written
> forms of W, D, and Z, consisting of just the deep part of those
> letters. W before an upward ADO, for instance, will create an
> unbroken line which starts as W and curves into ADO.
> > The half D and half Z are suggested as aesthetic possibities when
> ending words.
> >
> > For instance, added worlds can be written normally: Add wDldz, or
> with the half-letters as
> > ad{ KDldL (You need to install the font to view this
> > These half- letters are at K, L, and the right {, respectively
> >
> > Read also created halved forms of three tall letters, T, P, and H.
> They are not represented here because of both 1) lack of room, and
> 2) in my opinion, they are very ugly and do not contribute in any
> useful way to a printed version of the alphabet, although they are
> undoubtedly useful in handwriting.
> >
> > Read's parentheses have been incorporated. This innovation was to
> avoid confusion with the rounded tall and deep letters.
> >
> > More info coming soon.
> >
> >
> >
> > It is more important to love much than to think much.
> > Always do that which most impels you to love.
> > --St. Teresa of Avila
>
>
>
>
>


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From: Jon Zuck
Date: 2000-11-27 03:33:36 #
Subject: [shavian] Re: Other notes on *Jerome* Please read.

Toggle Shavian
In the Quickscript manual, Read created two letters for Gaelic sounds,
the LL in Llewellyn, and the
CH on Loch. I've mapped them to the side at the grave accent ` and the tilde ~ respectively. They look like this ` ~ (once you install the font).

BTW, I saw there was an old post which announced St. Jerome as our patron. Apparently there's story that tied him to befriending a lion after removing a thorn from it's paw, and of course, he was a great man of letters. Hence the name.
---
Shalom v'Tovah,
Jon Zuck
Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

It is more important to love much than to think much.
Always do that which most impels you to love.
--St. Teresa of Avila

----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Zuck <mailto:frimmin@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 9:59 PM
Subject: [shavian] New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please read.


---
Shalom v'Tovah,
Jon Zuck
Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

I kept the same mappings which we've been using, so anyone who's comfortable typing in First Shaw should have no problems here. Also, simply changing the font from any First Shaw font to Jerome should convert with no problems.

I attempted to make this a font with as many of the features of what Read called
"Senior Quickscript" as possible.

Hence, although "Junior Quickscript" does not specify most of the combined forms, here all (except ERR, which was discarded) are present, although some look different.

Several phonemes are represented twice:
EARTH (formerly ARRAY) supersedes ERR. Hence it appears in its familiar position, X, and at D, where it supplants old ERR

There are two forms of NUN: n, and G. Read felt it was worthwhile to have and upward and downward version of it for better connection. Selecting the appropriate form letter can give a very cursive feel.

There are two forms of ADO: Again, an upward, and a downward form; the familiar upward form is still at a; the downward form (looks like old MIME) is at u and replaces UP

Continuing in this vein, I created a downward form of EAT, mirroring his upward form. As an experimental letter, I put it to the side at the left brace.(})
For more connected writing, Shaw created optional alternate written forms of W, D, and Z, consisting of just the deep part of those letters. W before an upward ADO, for instance, will create an unbroken line which starts as W and curves into ADO.
The half D and half Z are suggested as aesthetic possibities when ending words.

For instance, added worlds can be written normally: Add wDldz, or with the half-letters as
ad{ KDldL (You need to install the font to view this
These half- letters are at K, L, and the right {, respectively

Read also created halved forms of three tall letters, T, P, and H. They are not represented here because of both 1) lack of room, and 2) in my opinion, they are very ugly and do not contribute in any useful way to a printed version of the alphabet, although they are undoubtedly useful in handwriting.

Read's parentheses have been incorporated. This innovation was to avoid confusion with the rounded tall and deep letters.

More info coming soon.



It is more important to love much than to think much.
Always do that which most impels you to love.
--St. Teresa of Avila


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From: Jayson Barber
Date: 2000-11-27 03:34:48 #
Subject: [shavian] Re: New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please read.

Toggle Shavian
I was thinking of adding the Abbreviations in places such as Ä etc.

Also is your capital W the abbreviation for Dr?
--- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> I've got Nul-Ray at two points, cap D and x. x is where ARRAY is
from the
> First Shaw mapping, and D where ERR was. That way, whoever wants to
> transcribe into Second Shaw from first only needs to change the
font.
>
> Adding abbreviations and the top-half letters is great, but where
do you see
> the room?
> ---
> Shalom v'Tovah,
> Jon Zuck
> Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
>
> It is more important to love much than to think much.
> Always do that which most impels you to love.
> --St. Teresa of Avila
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jayson Barber" <jaysonb@m...>
> To: <shavian@...>
> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:11 PM
> Subject: [shavian] Re: New Second Shaw font *Jerome* Please read.
>
>
> > Jon.
> >
> > Well.... I've decided after long and hard thought (2 minutes) that
> > I'll make MY font comply with your and I'll add in the
abreviations
> > (eg Mr and Mrs) and the half letters, I also noticed that on yours
> > you have the Nul-Ray combination (Gr on my font or x on yours)
why is
> > that? Any way, we'll work something out. Interested in making a
> > Second Shaw webpage?
> >
> > Jayson
> > --- In shavian@..., "Jon Zuck" <frimmin@e...> wrote:
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Shalom v'Tovah,
> > > Jon Zuck
> > > Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin
> > >
> > > I kept the same mappings which we've been using, so anyone who's
> > comfortable typing in First Shaw should have no problems here.
Also,
> > simply changing the font from any First Shaw font to Jerome should
> > convert with no problems.
> > >
> > > I attempted to make this a font with as many of the features of
> > what Read called
> > > "Senior Quickscript" as possible.
> > >
> > > Hence, although "Junior Quickscript" does not specify most of
the
> > combined forms, here all (except ERR, which was discarded) are
> > present, although some look different.
> > >
> > > Several phonemes are represented twice:
> > > EARTH (formerly ARRAY) supersedes ERR. Hence it appears in its
> > familiar position, X, and at D, where it supplants old ERR
> > >
> > > There are two forms of NUN: n, and G. Read felt it was
worthwhile
> > to have and upward and downward version of it for better
connection.
> > Selecting the appropriate form letter can give a very cursive
feel.
> > >
> > > There are two forms of ADO: Again, an upward, and a downward
form;
> > the familiar upward form is still at a; the downward form (looks
like
> > old MIME) is at u and replaces UP
> > >
> > > Continuing in this vein, I created a downward form of EAT,
> > mirroring his upward form. As an experimental letter, I put it to
the
> > side at the left brace.(})
> > > For more connected writing, Shaw created optional alternate
written
> > forms of W, D, and Z, consisting of just the deep part of those
> > letters. W before an upward ADO, for instance, will create an
> > unbroken line which starts as W and curves into ADO.
> > > The half D and half Z are suggested as aesthetic possibities
when
> > ending words.
> > >
> > > For instance, added worlds can be written normally: Add wDldz,
or
> > with the half-letters as
> > > ad{ KDldL (You need to install the font to view this
> > > These half- letters are at K, L, and the right {, respectively
> > >
> > > Read also created halved forms of three tall letters, T, P, and
H.
> > They are not represented here because of both 1) lack of room, and
> > 2) in my opinion, they are very ugly and do not contribute in any
> > useful way to a printed version of the alphabet, although they are
> > undoubtedly useful in handwriting.
> > >
> > > Read's parentheses have been incorporated. This innovation was
to
> > avoid confusion with the rounded tall and deep letters.
> > >
> > > More info coming soon.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It is more important to love much than to think much.
> > > Always do that which most impels you to love.
> > > --St. Teresa of Avila
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >


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