Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

hF /daSep
F Am glAd V R kYSes in His wun erIa, if nun uHD.

pDhAps V kAn sYlv H mistDI n tel mI frum wic pryvens SI,
His lEdI, hEalz. pDhAps /nMnavit P /cEp /bretan wX H
/kunEdIan Aksent iz sumwut rXafFd.
it iz bIyynd enI kunsIvabal pysabilatI HAt enI sEn pDsun
wUd Afekt a /kunEdIan Aksent. stIl, hD kwik wit n
wiliNnes t rezort t H bYm, bOT suJest SI hAz bIn lYN
Absent frum H hRt v /kunEdIan kulcD, suc Az it iz.

ragRdz, /pYl /vI. /kunEdIan ekstrPdinX
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, dshep <dshep@...> wrote:
> F nO a nFs /kanEdian lEdi NM stil sez 'abMt'
> (Nwic F fFnd rAHar seksi) And Nwen F tOld
> Nur HAt F NAd it from an aTYritEtiv sOrs
> HAt SI woz 'yrkEiak', SI wundarad if F mFt
> abtEn jOr pOstal adres. F balIv SI intendz
> tM send jM a bomb.

hi /daSep

/kAnEdIan vEz

/amXakAn vEs

/britiS vyz

Az V kAn sI /kAnEdIan prOnunsIESun iz a
nFs kympramFz. it SXz 2 v H 3 fOnYmz wiT
bOt /amDikAn n /britiS prOnunsIESuns.

ragRdz, /pYl /vI.
_______________attached____________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, dshep <dshep@...> wrote:
> > pI. es. vEz haz 3 kyman prOnunsIESuns,
> > /kAnEdIan, /amDikAn n /britiS
>
> wot iz Ha /kanEdian pranunsIESan?
>
> kjMria,
> /dSep
>

hF /daSep
F puzald abQt H kympQnd letxz fP menI a yC, n fFnaI,
F dasFdad t gO wiT H lOest kYman dInyminEtP.
sO F lUkt At H simpal /midwest /AmXaken Aksent.
HX R 40 bEsik fOnymz inklMdiN H /Swy.
hC iz H brEkdQn.

12 basic vowel sounds + 4 common dipthongs (I, ew, ow, oy)
24 basic consonant sounds if you group the voiced and unvoiced w-
sounds together (w, wh). This is an exact match with the 24 Shavian
consonant letters.

So how many of the basic vowel sounds can be modified into an r-vowel
compound sound. Let's see.

1. Schwa (a) -> D (mirror) Second "er" sound
2. ee (I) -> ID (cheer)
3. i (i) -> C (here, near, mirror)
4. e (e) -> X (air, pair)
5. ei (E) -> ED (player, prayer)
6. a (A) -> AD (unknown, except in expression "ar, me hearties")
7. u (u) -> (unknown in English)
8. ue (M) -> MD (sewer, bluer)
9. oo (U) -> x (sure, cure, urge)
10. oe (O) -> OD (slower)
11. o/ah (y) -> R (scar)
12. aw (Y) -> P (sore)

And how many of the 4 Dipthong vowel sounds can be modified into an
r-vowel compound sound. Let's see.

13. I (F) -> FD (fire, flier)
14. ew (V) -> VD (fewer)
15. ow (Q) -> QD (flour, flower)
16. oy (q) -> qD (foyer,lawyer,Tom Sawyer)

So there it is all laid out for you.
The key is to examine each word in terms of its
number of syllables and where we would mark the syllable
boundary.

So how many of the above sample words come across as
2 syllable words. The Dipthongs(13-16) all come across
that way to my ear,
13. fli-er
14. few-er
15. flou-er
16. soy-er (sawyer)
So you need 2 letters.
But some of the first 12 test words, I don't feel like breaking
into 2 syllables.
Which ones would you break into two syllables.

ragRdz, /pYl /vI.
___________________attached___________________________________






--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, dshep <dshep@...> wrote:
>
> reply to message 1529 from paul vandenbrink:
>
>
> wel, F surtanli Amm glAd HAtt sumwan agrIz wiH
> mI abQt sunTiN. mEks mF Old Nyrt tingal it dUz.
>
> It wUdant Nurt tM diskus Ha kompQnd letarz. He
> problam wiH Hem iz HAt HAr yr tM (2) katagOriz,
> wun HAt jMzez kamprest dFgrAfs, wun HAt duzant,
> And HAt tM mF mFnd iz wun kAtagOri tM meni.
> Nir it kumz agen!!! a SEvian in its bAr esenSalz
> wud bI Iziar tM lurn ... bly bly bly, jMv Nurd
> it Yl bafOr. yr HE nesaseri?
>
> regyrdz,
> /dsSep
>

hF /daSep
F Just kPektad a fV tFpOz
hC iz H rIvFzd brEkdQn AftD
H sekund atAct sekSun.
ragRdz, /pYl /vI.
_______________atAct_______________________-

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink"
<pvandenbrink11@...> wrote:
>
> hF /daSep
> F puzald abQt H kympQnd letxz fP menI a yC, n fFnaI,
> F dasFdad t gO wiT H lOest kYman dInyminEtP.
> sO F lUkt At H simpal /midwest /AmXaken Aksent.
> HX R 40 bEsik fOnymz inklMdiN H /Swy.
> hC iz H brEkdQn.
>
> 12 basic vowel sounds + 4 common dipthongs (I, ew, ow, oy)
> 24 basic consonant sounds if you group the voiced and unvoiced w-
> sounds together (w, wh). This is an exact match with the 24
Shavian
> consonant letters.
>
> So how many of the basic vowel sounds can be modified into an r-
vowel
> compound sound. Let's make a test.
>
> 1. Schwa (a) -> D (mirror) Second "er" sound
> 2. ee (I) -> ID (shears, hears, cheers, fears)
> 3. i (i) -> C (sheer, here, near, mirror)
> 4. e (e) -> X (bare, air, pair)
> 5. ei (E) -> ED (Bayer's aspirin, player, grayer, soothsayer)
> 6. a (A) -> AD (unknown, except in expression "ar, me hearties")
> 7. u (u) -> (unknown in English)
> 8. ue (M) -> MD (sewer, bluer)
> 9. oo (U) -> x (slurry, sure, cure, curry, blur, urge, purge)
> 10. oe (O) -> OD (slower, mower)
> 11. o/ah (y) -> R (scar, tar)
> 12. aw (Y) -> P (score, more, tore)
>
> And how many of the 4 Dipthong vowel sounds can be modified into an
> r-vowel compound sound. Let's see.
>
> 13. I (F) -> FD (fire, flier)
> 14. ew (V) -> VD (fewer)
> 15. ow (Q) -> QD (flour, flower)
> 16. oy (q) -> qD (foyer,lawyer,Tom Sawyer)
>
> So there it is all laid out for you.
> The key is to examine each word in terms of its
> number of syllables and where we would mark the syllable
> boundary.
>
> So how many of the above sample words come across as
> 2 syllable words. The Dipthongs(13-16) all come across
> 2 syllable words to my ear:
> 13. fli-er
> 14. few-er
> 15. flou-er
> 16. soy-er (sawyer)
> So you need 2 letters for some of the R-vowel compounds.
> But for most of the first 12 test words,
> I don't feel it's right to break them into
> 2 syllables.
> Which ones would you break into two syllables? (1-12)
And if it is a one syllable word, doesn't it make
common sense to represent the complex Vowel sound with
a single Shavian letter?
>
> ragRdz, /pYl /vI.
_______________atAct__________________________
> > It wUdant Nurt tM diskus Ha kompQnd letarz. He
> > problam wiH Hem iz HAt HAr yr tM (2) katagOriz,
> > wun HAt jMzez kamprest dFgrAfs, wun HAt duzant,
> > And HAt tM mF mFnd iz wun kAtagOri tM meni.
> > Nir it kumz agen!!! a SEvian in its bAr esenSalz
> > wud bI Iziar tM lurn ... bly bly bly, jMv Nurd
> > it Yl bafOr. yr HE nesaseri?

Hi Algy
You got a pretty good handle on the Shavian letters.
I posted your words from the other Shavian Alphabet forum
and responded to them here. I corrected a few typos in your
words about words.
Take a look.
See attached below.
Regards, Paul V.
P.S. you don't seem to like to use the R-sound vowel letters.
Let me suggest using "are" and "or" to start with and working
to the other less commonly used ones, later.
Only the unstressed "er"
sound "Array" is more common among the R-sound vowel letters.

P.P.S
mF wxd fP tadF iz rIlEsunSip
mydxn lFf hA got mP IgAlatXIan. men n wimen R nQ OfiSalI Ikwal.
mXiJ iz RkEik n ybselIt. wI nQ kYl Yl His stuf, rIlEsunSips.
HX iz nO AbsalMt kumitment, OnlI a slFdiN skEal v intimesI
n luv. unfPcunetlI mEn R YlwEz a fV steps bIhFnd in knOiN wX
HE stAnd in H rIlEsunSip, n OkESunalI HE lUz tuc wiT TiNz n
slFd rFt yf HAt slFdiN skEal YltMgeHD.

______________attached_________________________________
--- In shavian@yahoogroups.com, "ljptbgx" <ljptbgx@...> wrote:
> sum mudald mydxn wxdz
> H wxd "deT" hAz YlwEz ben embXasiN t HOz hM hAv t liv wiT it
> --lFk inSurAns kompAnIz.
> nQ HE hAv kom up wiT H term "demFz" wic iz muc
> mOr plezAnt. "deT" iz sO fFnal, sO tDminal, sO abrupt.
> wen jM sE somwun hAz met
> hiz "demFz" it sImz Az if hIz iz not rIli ded, Just gon
> on a trip t /filadelfIa fP a wFl.
>
> anoHer helpfUl mydxrn wxd iz "lFf-stFl."
> it koverz Yl H TiNz wI jMzd t mIn
> bF wFld Ots. Onli wiT wFld Ots, V hAd a kutYf pqnt,
> EJ 20 P HX-abQts.
> lFf-stFl iz Open-endad.
> from tUdEz pqnt v vV /JeNgis /kyn n /atila H /hun
> wxnt eni wxs HAn enibodi els;
> HE Just hAd a difDent lFf-stFlz, HAt iz Yl.

reply to message 1571 from paul vandenbrink, who asked:


> pDhAps V kAn sYlv H mistDI n tel mI
> frum wic pryvens SI, His lEdI, hEalz.

/nOva /skOSa.

> pDhAps /nMnavit

Nwer iz "/nMnavit"?

> it iz bIyynd enI kunsIvabal pysabilatI HAt
> enI sEn pDsun wUd Afekt a /kunEdIan Aksent.

F balIv HE balIv HE (/nOva /skOSanz) yr
a pIpal apyrt.

>stIl, hD kwik wit n wiliNnes t rezort t H bYm, bOT
> suJest SI hAz bIn lYN Absent frum H hRt v
> /kunEdIan kulcD, suc Az it iz.

F NAv eksplEnd tm Nur HAt sendih bombz in
Ha mEl NAz surtan konsakwenziz suc Az prizan
tFm, sO SI NAz ralentad And wUd nQ Onli
wiS tM send jM sumTih smeli. sO, adres plIz.

AntisapEti~li,
/dSep

Does anyone have a live link for downloading a font for Quickscript?
If so please email it to peacebearatx@.... Thanks!

reply to message 1572 from paul vandenbrink, who points out:



> Az V kAn sI /kAnEdIan prOnunsIESun iz a
> nFs kympramFz. it SXz 2 v H 3 fOnYmz wiT
> bOt /amDikAn n /britiS prOnunsIESuns.

yr HAr eni uHar suc kompramFzaz, And yr
HE a rasult ov konSas efYrt tM bI distihkt?

kjUrias,
/dSep

response to messages 1573 and 1574, in which paul vandenbrink
compiles a list:


> F puzald abQt H kympQnd letxz fP menI a yC,
> n fFnaI, F dasFdad t gO wiT H lOest kYman
> dInyminEtP. sO F lUkt At H simpal /midwest
> /AmXaken Aksent. HX R 40 bEsik fOnymz
> inklMdiN H /Swy. hC iz H brEkdQn.

> 12 basic vowel sounds + 4 common dipthongs
> (I, ew, ow, oy) 24 basic consonant sounds if you group
> the voiced and unvoiced w-sounds together (w, wh).
> This is an exact match with the 24 Shavian consonant
> letters.

I would count seventeen vowels, which may simply be a question of
definition:
beet, bit, bet, bait, bat, bite, bout, but, abut,;
bah, cop, coil, call, cold, could, coot, cute.

> So how many of the basic vowel sounds can be modified
> into an r-vowel compound sound. Let's see.

> 1. Schwa (a) -> D (mirror) Second "er" sound
> 2. ee (I) -> ID (shears, hears, cheers, fears)
> 3. i (i) -> C (sheer, here, near, mirror)

Just as a check, the AHD (note use of abbreviation) rhymes cheer, here,
near, mirror (first syllable) as \Ur\, but I understand that it is
question of emphasis,
just as i do with 'we're'.

> 4. e (e) -> X (bare, air, pair)

'Air, pair' for me is a much more open sound (Archaic?) as I distinguish
between 'merry' and 'marry', and would rhyme neither with 'care'. The
AHD
lumps all these vowel-sounds together as 'â'.

> 5. ei (E) -> ED (Bayer's aspirin, player, grayer, soothsayer)

Whether 'player' and similar words is \play-er\ (play-uh) or \playr\
(play@\
varies from dialect to dialect. The AHD recommends two syllables. My own
pronunciation does not really turn the second part into a true
syllable, but
rather sort of a trailing-off murmur.

> 6. a (A) -> AD (unknown, except in expression
> "ar, me hearties")

Long John Silver? Argh!

> 7. u (u) -> (unknown in English)

Blur? Err?

> 8. ue (M) -> MD (sewer, bluer)
> 9. oo (U) -> x (slurry, sure, cure, curry, blur, urge, purge)

Do you rhyme 'cure' and 'purge"?
Both I and the AHD would say \kjUr\ and \urJ\

> 10. oe (O) -> OD (slower, mower)
> 11. o/ah (y) -> R (scar, tar)
> 12. aw (Y) -> P (score, more, tore)

I pronounce these particular words with a long-o as i distinguish
between or and
ore (as did the great James Murray of the OED) and so to avoid
confusion, spell
these words \Or\ respectively \Yr\ rather than use the \P\.

I have (at least) fifteen r-compounds:
we're, here, where, mayor, there, hire, hour, her, butter;
far, ---, for, four, poor , pure, you're.
People who use the intrusive 'r' can I believe supply words for the
blank above (foyer etc.).

>And how many of the 4 Dipthong vowel sounds can be
> modified into an r-vowel compound sound. Let's see.

> 13. I (F) -> FD (fire, flier)
> 14. ew (V) -> VD (fewer)
> 15. ow (Q) -> QD (flour, flower)
> 16. oy (q) -> qD (foyer,lawyer,Tom Sawyer)

> So there it is all laid out for you.
> The key is to examine each word in terms of its
> number of syllables and where we would mark the
> syllable boundary.

> So how many of the above sample words come across
> as 2 syllable words. The Dipthongs(13-16) all come
> across that way to my ear,

> So you need 2 letters for some of the R-vowel compounds.
> But for most of the first 12 test words, I don't feel it's right
to break
> them into 2 syllables.

> Which ones would you break into two syllables? (1-12)

I would pronounce 'fire' and 'flour' more or less as \fFr, flQr\,
but fewer as \fVD\. I also think 'lawyer' should be pronounced
\lYjD\ but I know the other pronunciation exists.

I think I would pronounce 'mirror' as two syllables.

The r-compounds vary too much between place to place and person to
person to ever have any exact definition of pronunciation that would
please everyone, I fear.

> And if it is a one syllable word, doesn't it make common sense to
> represent the complex Vowel sound with a single Shavian letter?

But there aren't enough of them. There is no single Shavian letter
for numbers 1, 2, 5,
8, 9 (unless you pronounce 'sure' as \shur\), or 10 in your list; and
there are divergent
pronunciations for 4, 11, and 12. We do not require (or desire) a
uniform pronunciation,
do we? Probably impossible anyway.

impossibly,
dshep

The best place to ask is the Quikscript group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Read_Alphabet/

We don't hold any Quikscript fonts in our archive.

Hugh B


> -----Original Message-----
> From: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com [mailto:shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of peacebearatx
> Sent: 15 March 2006 21:52
> To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shawalphabet] font for Quickscript
>
> Does anyone have a live link for downloading a font for Quickscript?
> If so please email it to peacebearatx@.... Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>