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Hi Paul,

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink" wrote:
>
> Hi Yayah
> Sorry, I haven't posted for a while.
> And my comment below was uncalled for and inexact.
> I was actually suggesting that your priorities for the attributes
> of a good Alphabet allowed for a modicum of confusion.
> Obviously that is not the case.
> Regards, Paul V.

No worries! I thought that you had probably simply got hold of the
wrong end of the stick. Perhaps my message *was* confusing, or at
any rate, not as clear as it might have been. Let's forget it.


> P.S. The best expanded alphabet that I have seen
> using the Roman Alphabet as a base, is the Pitman Phonetic
> Alphabet which can be found at www.omniglot.com

Thanks, I'll look it up.


> I actually created an enhanced version with 15 extra letters,
which an average person can read without a lot of trouble or
training.
> The only Diagraphs allowed are for dipthongs, and the 4 or 5
alternate consonant sounds indicated with silent h, in the Roman
Alphabet.

I'd like to see that! If it is not on omniglot, please post a link
to your phonetic alphabet.

Regards,
Yahya

Hi Yayah
Thanks for accepting my apology.
Enough said.

As for the Pitman Phonetic Alphabet, not Shorthand, I checked and it
is still on Omniglot.com. Perhaps, it is not categorized properly.
I got it by going to the main or portal page and clicking on the
A-Z Index and then going down to the P section.
The A-Z index is under the Writing Systems heading and includes every
alphabet on Omniglot.com including the Shavian Alphabet
Its exact name in the A-Z index is Pitman Initial Teaching Alphabet

I was really impressed with it and posted my own slightly Revised
Pitman Initial Teaching Alphabet at
www.englishalphabets.com
The main thing I did was add a couple extra letters for a vocalic Elle
and the Schwa.
I'd love to hear some feedback on the Pitman I.T.A alphabet. It
pretty neat, altho I quite prefer the Shavian Alphabet.
The Pitman I.T.A. is a very good way to introduce kids and ESL
students to Phonetics.
Regards, Paul V.
__________________attached_________________________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "yahya_melb" <yahya@...> wrote:
>> > And my comment below was uncalled for and inexact.
> > I was actually suggesting that your priorities for the attributes
> > of a good Alphabet allowed for a modicum of confusion.
> > Obviously that is not the case.
> > Regards, Paul V.
>
> No worries! I thought that you had probably simply got hold of
the
> wrong end of the stick. Perhaps my message *was* confusing, or at
> any rate, not as clear as it might have been. Let's forget it.

Hi Bob
Pitman Shorthand and Pitman Shorterhand are still considered the best
shorthands every developed for English. It is very sophisticated and
takes quite a bit of training to use all the features.
The problem is that it is so compact, it is almost indecipherable
exept by an expert or the person who actually wrote it.
Also there is no computer interface.
Regards, Paul V.
_____________attached______________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, RSRICHMOND@... wrote:
> When I worked in New York City in the mid 1960's, Pitman shorthand
was still
> the usual shorthand in NYC, while the rest of the country used
Gregg. I think
> it was still being taught in the schools in NYC then, though the
need for
> shorthands was declining because of the rapid acceptance of
practical (i.e.
> magnetic tape based) dictation equipment at that time. I remember
one of the
> secretaries (I'd guess born around 1910) showing me how it was
written - the
> thickness of a stroke (how hard you pushed on the pencil)
determined some phonemic
> feature, voicing I think.

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink" wrote:
...
> Pitman Shorthand and Pitman Shorterhand are still considered the
best shorthands every developed for English. It is very
sophisticated and takes quite a bit of training to use all the
features.
> The problem is that it is so compact, it is almost indecipherable
exept by an expert or the person who actually wrote it. Also there
is no computer interface.

Hi Paul,

In the 60s while at high school, I taught myself Pitman shorthand
from my mother's old text book - they wouldn't let me study
any "commercial" subject because I was in "the science stream". I
used Pitman's for a while after I started working on the student
newspaper at uni, but soon discovered Teeline shorthand. It was
very quick to learn, and does away with the light/heavy stroke
distinction Pitman's uses for voicing. Having used both, IMO
Teeline is far and away an easier system, both to write and to
read. I still use Teeline ocasionally, some 30 years later, when
either time or available writing paper is at a premium. But I've
never been tempted to use Pitman's again.

Regards,
Yahya

Hi Paul,

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink" wrote:
...
> As for the Pitman Phonetic Alphabet, not Shorthand, I checked and
it is still on Omniglot.com. Perhaps, it is not categorized properly.
I got it by going to the main or portal page and clicking on the A-Z
Index and then going down to the P section. The A-Z index is under
the Writing Systems heading and includes every alphabet on
Omniglot.com including the Shavian Alphabet. Its exact name in the A-
Z index is Pitman Initial Teaching Alphabet.

And the link is:
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ita.htm


> I was really impressed with it and posted my own slightly Revised
Pitman Initial Teaching Alphabet at
> www.englishalphabets.com

Which I found, specifically, at:
http://www.shawalphabet.com/englishalphabets/


> The main thing I did was add a couple extra letters for a vocalic
Elle and the Schwa.
> I'd love to hear some feedback on the Pitman I.T.A alphabet. It
pretty neat, altho I quite prefer the Shavian Alphabet. The Pitman
I.T.A. is a very good way to introduce kids and ESL students to
Phonetics.


The ITA, as we knew it, was introduced into the teaching of reading
in schools in Tasmania in, I believe, around 1957; my two cousins,
younger than me by two & three years, were introduced to reading
using the ITA when they started primary school. Two years later,
they had to change to the standard English alphabet. As a
consequence, most of the kids in their age group finished Grade 6
unable to read, write and spell to a standard deemed acceptable to
begin high school. Schools had to organise remedial reading skills
classes for them, and the experiment was called off ... So, not to
be cntentious, but I'm not convinced that the ITA was such a good
thing. Perhaps the teachers were inadequately prepared to teach
it? I don't know.

Luckily for me, I was already reading cereal boxes and street signs
before I started school!

Regards,
Yahya

hQ dM F enlyrJ H tFp?

Brian Algeri <bkalgeri@...> wrote: hF grMp,

a translitarESen v a SPt pOam wiT ilustrESen.

mE hAv t klik on H imEJ f fUl sFz. H *pdf fFl hAz
H SYvWn font embeded. F lFk H *png imAJ betx.

bitmAp - 88 kb
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/9756/bluejay8fl3.png

*pdf - 35 kb
http://shavian.metabright.com/files/pdf/Bluejay.pdf


regRdz,
/brFAn /AlJxI
http://shavian.metabright.com/








---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

I've finished the consonants portion, and am gonna start work on the
vowels sometime this weekend.

Take a look at it and tell me what you think.

www.circuitous.net/learnshav/consonants.php

> hQ dM F enlyrJ H tFp?

f H *png bitmAp, Aftx it lOdz, klik on it f H fUl sFz.
P sEv H imiJ t jx maSIn n Hen vV it fUl sFz in a
grAfiks prOgrAm. if His iz stil not lRJ inaf I-mEl
mI n F wil send V a lRJx bitmAp.

f H *pdf zMm in t abQt 200% dipendiN on jx monitxz
sFz n skrIn rezalMSen. *pdf wil Hen skEl H tFp up.


regRdz,
/brFAn

circtf writes:
> Take a look at it and tell me what you think.

Looks like the sites coming together - nice!

Since you asked. Just a couple of suggestions - feel free to ignore if
you wish :)

1. On the home page the first paragraph is very negative. Change it to
be more positive. Don't use the words "required" or "depressed". Thats
a turn-off for most people. There is humor to the paragraph though, so
it may work.

2. In the third paragraph you can probably just eliminate the last
sentence. You don't need to show any lack of knowledge.

3. In the forth paragraph don't use the words "squiggly mess" when
comparing shavian to the latin type. Use something like "...if it
looks like the beautiful type in the...". This is more positive and
makes the reader want to learn shavian because it is a beautiful
language. No on wants to learn a "squiggly mess" type of language :)

4. In the fifth paragraph change the word "weird" to "beautiful", or
"pleasing". Again more positive.

5. I like the fill with the left and right justification. I use a 1280x1024
desktop resolution and the page has a lot of blank right "real-estate",
but you also have to make the page viewable for those that use a
800x600 desktop resolution.

6. The information is great! Will be nice resource when finished.


Regards,
Brian

1. Well, it's for a class right now, so I'm sticking with the "you
probably don't want to be here" angle until the class is over. I'll
make it more positive once that's done.

2. Any of you using a Mac and could tell me where the fonts go, then?

3. Yeah, it's not even all that squiggly. I'll change it, but "the
beautiful text..." is kinda, um, a bit excessive? Something like that?

4. But... it IS weird. At least to people seeing it for the first time.

5. Yeah, "text-align: justify;" is great. I wanted it to work on any
size monitor. If I let it take up the whole space, well... it doesn't
look very good at all. You have whole paragraphs taking just one line.

6. Thanks. You checked the consonants page, right? :D I wanna make
sure my info is good and moderately helpful.

Thanks for the feedback.

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Algeri" <bkalgeri@...> wrote:
>
> circtf writes:
> > Take a look at it and tell me what you think.
>
> Looks like the sites coming together - nice!
>
> Since you asked. Just a couple of suggestions - feel free to ignore if
> you wish :)
>
> 1. On the home page the first paragraph is very negative. Change it to
> be more positive. Don't use the words "required" or "depressed". Thats
> a turn-off for most people. There is humor to the paragraph though, so
> it may work.
>
> 2. In the third paragraph you can probably just eliminate the last
> sentence. You don't need to show any lack of knowledge.
>
> 3. In the forth paragraph don't use the words "squiggly mess" when
> comparing shavian to the latin type. Use something like "...if it
> looks like the beautiful type in the...". This is more positive and
> makes the reader want to learn shavian because it is a beautiful
> language. No on wants to learn a "squiggly mess" type of language :)
>
> 4. In the fifth paragraph change the word "weird" to "beautiful", or
> "pleasing". Again more positive.
>
> 5. I like the fill with the left and right justification. I use a
1280x1024
> desktop resolution and the page has a lot of blank right "real-estate",
> but you also have to make the page viewable for those that use a
> 800x600 desktop resolution.
>
> 6. The information is great! Will be nice resource when finished.
>
>
> Regards,
> Brian
>