Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

Yahya wrote:
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Thurman wrote:
>> I've been considering how to use Shavian in a desktop environment
> such as GNOME, and I wrote up my findings as a web page:
>> http://marnanel.org/shavian/shavian-in-gnome
>
> Thomas,
>
> Very nice! But I *hate* your page heading, viz.:
> "(ð`œ)ð`¯ð`´ð`¥ ð`¦ð`¯ ð`ž ·ð`–ð`±ð`ð`³ð`¯ ð`©ð`¤ð`"ð`³ð`šð`§ð``
> or
> Doing apparently silly things in GNOME
> which might actually prove useful"
> It made me run around trying different encodings to get rid of all
> those empty square boxes - only to discover that you had indeed used
> UTF-8, which is how IE originally displayed it to me - and that NO
> available encoding made the boxes readable. Grrr!
Looks like something's broken on your end... your quoted text has been
corrupted by something that can't handle UTF8.
Also, I was able to see everything in the page just fine. Using the
Iceweasel browser under Debian Lenny / XFCE, I can even see the shavian
title [(𐑜)𐑯𐑴𐑥 𐑦𐑯 𐑞 ·𐑖𐑱𐑝𐑳𐑯 𐑩𐑤𐑓𐑳𐑚𐑧𐑑] properly displayed
on my titlebar, taskbar and everything else.

And just to be mean, I'm adding it to the subject line of this message! :)

>
> Your little jokes aside - thanks for the reference to ConScript
> (link: http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/). It was also amusing
> to follow their link to the Unicode range U+10450-U+1047F (link:
> http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U10450.pdf) where I discovered that
> the Shavian Letter NUN is a ... Vowel!
>
> Regards,
> Yahya
Yeah, not only Nun but also Roar is under that category. It's because
of a common misinterpretation of the reference card/bookmark included
with ·𐑨𐑯𐑛𐑮𐑩𐑒𐑤𐑰𐑟. Some people read the alphabet vertically
instead of horizontally, thus putting all the letters in the wrong
order. In fact, it's immortalized now in the Unicode standard so people
can get it mixed up from now to Kingdom Come!

Just remember: they go in pairs. Peep/Bib, Tot/Dead, Kick/Gag etc. Or
as I tend to prefer, Tot/Dad, Kick/Gig, ... Sure/Genre, ... Ing/Hah, ...
Air/Urge, ... Urbane/Ear (or Better/Ear). Since there isn't really an
official set of names for the letters, the ones used are just examples,
and some words tend to work better than the ones found in Androcles!
--
('> Oui, c'est moi, Éthan Lamoreaux. Salut!
/)) Il te couvrira de ses plumes,
//'' Et tu trouveras un refuge sous ses ailes
Psaume 91

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Philip Newton" wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 17:08, Yahya wrote:
> > It made me run around trying different encodings to get rid of all
> > those empty square boxes - only to discover that you had indeed used
> > UTF-8, which is how IE originally displayed it to me - and that NO
> > available encoding made the boxes readable. Grrr!
>
> I think that reflects more on IE's (or your fonts', or your OS's)
> support for Plane 1 characters than on the web page.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Philip Newton
>
IE? - possible, tho it's improved thru recent versions.
OS? - I think that unlikely.
Fonts? No way. I've got more than enough fonts available with
(Unicode) Shavian support.

More helpful, Philip, would be for you to identify what YOU see, and if
it's not just 'unrecognised character' empty square boxes, what
encoding you are viewing it with and what font it appears to be using
on your system.

Shavian (just like unix, which I have enjoyed using professionally)
will make no real headway with the masses until its presentation
becomes a default, not a cleverly-engineered personal quirk. If the
webpage in question was intended to show a Shavian heading, it ought to
be just about impossible for it to appear otherwise.

Regards,
Yahya

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 15:00, Yahya <yahya@...> wrote:
> More helpful, Philip, would be for you to identify what YOU see,

Shavian letters.

Using Firefox 3.0.1 under Windows Vista SP1.

NB: I see Shavian in the title of the tab and on the page itself; I
see boxes in the title bar of the browser and on the taskbar button.

FWIW, I just see boxes on the page in Opera 9.52, MSIE 7.0.6001.18000,
and Google Chrome 0.2.149.30.

I didn't manually specify the page encoding on any of the browsers.

On Firefox, mousing over View > Character Encoding shows a little
"selected" icon next to "Unicode (UTF-8)".

> and if
> it's not just 'unrecognised character' empty square boxes, what
> encoding you are viewing it with and what font it appears to be using
> on your system.

I'm not good enough at recognising Shavian fonts to tell.

> If the
> webpage in question was intended to show a Shavian heading, it ought to
> be just about impossible for it to appear otherwise.

I imagine it's a Plane 1 thing, not Shavian specifically; a lot of
software probably isn't ready for Plane 1 yet.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Ethan <ethan@...> wrote:
>
> Yahya wrote:
> > --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Thurman wrote:
> >> I've been considering how to use Shavian in a desktop
environment such as GNOME, and I wrote up my findings as a web page:
http://marnanel.org/shavian/shavian-in-gnome
> >
> > Thomas,
> >
> > Very nice! But I *hate* your page heading, viz.:
"(ð`Å")ð`¯ð`´ð`Â¥ ð`¦ð`¯ ð`ž ·ð`â€"ð`±ð`ð`³ð`¯
ð`©ð`¤ð`"ð`³ð`šð`§ð``
or
Doing apparently silly things in GNOME
which might actually prove useful"
It made me run around trying different encodings to get rid of all
those empty square boxes - only to discover that you had indeed used
UTF-8, which is how IE originally displayed it to me - and that NO
available encoding made the boxes readable. Grrr!

> Looks like something's broken on your end... your quoted text has
been corrupted by something that can't handle UTF8.

Agreed to the first half. I'm using Internet Explorer 7.0.5730.11,
which seems to think it can handle UTF-8 encoding; maybe it's a bug?

> Also, I was able to see everything in the page just fine. Using
the Iceweasel browser under Debian Lenny / XFCE, I can even see the
shavian title [(ð`œ)ð`¯ð`´ð`¥ ð`¦ð`¯ ð`ž ·ð`–ð`±ð`ð`³ð`¯ ð`©ð`¤ð`"ð`³ð`šð`§ð``] properly displayed on my
titlebar, taskbar and everything else.
>
> And just to be mean, I'm adding it to the subject line of this
message! :)
>
> >
> > Your little jokes aside - thanks for the reference to ConScript
(link: http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/). It was also amusing
to follow their link to the Unicode range U+10450-U+1047F (link:
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U10450.pdf) where I discovered that
the Shavian Letter NUN is a ... Vowel!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Yahya
> Yeah, not only Nun but also Roar is under that category. It's
because of a common misinterpretation of the reference card/bookmark
included with ·ð`¨ð`¯ð`›ð`®ð`©ð`'ð`¤ð`°ð`Ÿ. Some people read the alphabet vertically
instead of horizontally, thus putting all the letters in the wrong
order. In fact, it's immortalized now in the Unicode standard so
people can get it mixed up from now to Kingdom Come!
>
> Just remember: they go in pairs. Peep/Bib, Tot/Dead, Kick/Gag etc.
Or as I tend to prefer, Tot/Dad, Kick/Gig, ... Sure/Genre, ...
Ing/Hah, ... Air/Urge, ... Urbane/Ear (or Better/Ear). Since there
isn't really an official set of names for the letters, the ones used
are just examples, and some words tend to work better than the ones
found in Androcles!
> --
> ('> Oui, c'est moi, Éthan Lamoreaux. Salut!
> /)) Il te couvrira de ses plumes,
> //'' Et tu trouveras un refuge sous ses ailes
> Psaume 91

Salut, Éthan! And my sincere apologies to Thomas.

You may note that I have not been able to see the Shavian title for
this message - except as boxes! And that the boxes I originally saw
on the webpage, and quoted, now appear (after Éthan's quoting) as if
I was using the ASCII encoding for the webpage - a mishmash of
extended latin characters with plenty of thorns, a few yens and (of
course) a copyright ... :-(

Regards,
Yahya

misez FnsfOrd hil: hQ dredful fOr jM!

...

lFza: not a bit. it never did him nO horm wat F kUd sI.

...

but Hen hI did not kIp it up regjMlar. [cIrfuli] on H burst, Az jM mFt
sE, from tFm t tFm.

...

n YlwEz mOr agrIabel wen hI hAd a drop in.

...

wen hI waz Qt v wOrk, mF moHer jMzd t giv him 4-pens n tel him t gO Qt n
not kom bAk until hI'd druNk himself cIrful n loviN-lFk.

...

Her'z lots v wimen hAz t mEk Her huzbAndz druNk t mEk Hem fit t liv wiH.

...

[nQ kwFt At her Iz] jM sI, it's lFk His. if a mAn hAz a bit v a
konSens, it YlwEz tEks him wen hI'z sOber; n Hen it mEkz him
lO-spirited.

...

a drop v bMz Just tEks HAt Yf m mEks him hApi. [t /fredi, hM iz in
konvulSonz v supresd lAfter] hIr! wat R jM snigeriN At?

...

fredi: H nM smYl tYk. jM dM it sO Yfuli wel.

...

lFza: if F waz dMiN it proper, wat waz jM lAfiN At? [t /higinz] hAv F
sed AniTiN F Ytent?.

...

misez higinz [interpOziN] not At Yl, mis dMlitel.

...

lFza: wel, HAt's a mersi, AnihQ. [ekspAnsivli] wat F YlwEz sE iz--

...

higinz: [rFziN n lUkiN At hiz woc] ahem!

...

lFza:n [lUkiN rQnd At him; tEkiN H hint; n rFziN] wel, F must gO. [HE
Yl rFz. /fredi gOz t H dOr] sO plIzd t hav met jM. gUdbF. [SI SEks
hAndz wiH misez higinz]

...

misez higinz: gUd-bF.

...

lFza: gUd-bF, kernal /pikeriN.

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

end v Akt 3e

Akt3e~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`'bethani

...

mF first klAs in Rt, At H /kAlifOrnia skMl v fFn Rts, waz kompoziSon.

...

HAt waz wen F lernd HAt H entFr fAkulti wer 'non-obJektiv--AbstrAkt'
Rtists.

...

kompoziSon delt wiH kolor, bAlAns, dominAns, kontrAst, vEriESon,
grEdESon, tekscur, lFn, SEp, sFz, direkSon, n vAljM v lFt--but nO obJekt
HAt iz rekognFzabel.

...

mF instruktOr nOtisd HAt won v mF klAsez waz perspektiv n

sugJested F drop Qt v HAt won bekYz Az a 'modern' Rtist F wUd never hAv
a jMs fOr it.

...

sO F dident boHer t menSon HAt mF gOl waz t bekom An ilustrEtOr.

...

At first F kUdent imAJin hQ t gO abQt drYiN somTiN HAt waz
unrekognFzabel. Hen F TYt v a trik F hAd lernd from a kRtMnist: trF
reversiN everiTiN.

...

fOr hOmwOrk F jMzd som v mF sAmpel ilustrESonz Az a sOrs n, wFl mEntEniN
H sEm kompoziSon, F cEnJd everi SEp t watever sImd Az unlFk it Az
posibel: a kjMb bekEm a sfIr, An Oval bekEm a rektANgel, a trFANgjMlar
SEp bekEm a paralelogrAm, n sO fOrT. if somTiN waz smYl F mEd it lRJ.
if a nAcural kolOr waz OrAnJ F cEnJd it t blM.

...

wat surprFzd mI waz HAt mF instruktOr waz espeSiali plIzd wiH mF wOrk.
hI konfirmd mF belIf HAt a gUd kompoziSon HAt mEntEnd bAlAns, kontrAst,
dominAns, vEriESon, grEdESon, hRmoni, n jMniti wUd kreEt a plIziN efekt
Iven if H gAleri huN it upsFd dQn n nO mAter wat unrekognFzable fOrmz
wer jMzd.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 700. /grEsen



.

mATemAtiks iz a jMniversal lANgwaJ..



in Rt it enEbelz us t AkjUratli meZur everi obJekt in a perspektiv
drYiN.



bilderz hAv loN nOn HE kUd jMz Fsometrik drYiNz Az Izili Az blM

print meZurments.

...

fjMer R awEr HAt perspektiv drYiNz--Iven fOtOgrAfs kAn bI jMzd t
determin presFs meZurments. rIsentli 100-jIr Old fOtOz wer jMzd t
rIkonstrukt H first flFiN maSIn invented in /frAns bF /dMmon sins nO
plAnz v it wer stil in egzistens.

...

/dMmon waz in H fOtO n HE nM from bFograpIz hQ tYl hI waz. from His HE
kUd kAlkjMlEt H egzAkt sFz v H krAft.

[sI google images: Alberto santos-dumont]

..

His iz H viZUal mAT meTod:

cMz a poziSon fOr H hOrFzon v jUr pikcur.

...

plEs a vAniSiN pqnt on H hOrFzon Az jM wiS.

...

desFd hQ mAni fIt abov grQnd (bottom frEm v jUr pikcur) H F-level
(hOrFzon) iz t bI.

...

drop a vertikal lFn from H vAniSiN pQnt t H bEslFn.

...

divFd H rektANgel Hus fOrmd, bF dFAgonalz.

...

if jM cOz 20 fIt Az jUr F-level, 1\2 H distans from H hOrFzon t H bEslFn
wud bI 40 fIt.

...

Ani rektANgjMlar spEs on H grQnd plEn rIciN from H grQnd lFn t H 40 fUt
distAns in jUr perspektiv drYiN kAn Hen bI divFded bF dFAgonalz intM 8
spEsez. His estAbliSez a resIdiN skEl v 40 fIt in jMnits v 5 fUt depTs.

...

ekstend H jMnits akros H pikcur.

...

nQ divFd H distAns from H hOrFzon t H bEslFn, (H left frEm v jUr pikcur)
Az wel Az H bEslFn itself, intM 5 fUt jMnits t agrI wiH H resIdiN skEl
jM kreEted.

...

konekt grQnd jMnits t H vAniSiN pqnt.

...

His skwErz Yf H first 40 fIt in kjMbz 5 bF 5 fIt skwEr.

...

wiH furHer dFAgonalz jM kAn meZur Ani pOrSon v H grQnd plEn.

...

nQ HAt jM hAv bOT a vertikal n a hOrizontal skEl jM kAn drY Ani subJekt
HAt iz dependent upon H 3 dimenSonz.

...

nQ, hQ iz a meZuriN pqnt estAbliSd?

…

it iz on H hOrFzon lFn. if H F-level iz At 8 fIt, H meZuriN pqnt wUd bI
twFs HAt distAns—Or 16 fIt on IHer, Or bOT sFdz v H vAniSiN pqnt.

…

izent H mAT amEziN?



+-+-+-+-+-+- >/grEsen

000

028. tM muc rIdiN hinderz noleJ. wI TiNk wI nO wat wI hAv red, n
konsider Qrselvz ekskjMzd from lerniN it. --/rUsO.

...

hM nOz if /SEkspIr mFt not hAv TYt les, if hI hAd red mOr? --edward juN.

...

som pIpel rId Onli bekYz HE R tM lEzi t TiNk. desultOri rIdiN hAz YlwEz
ben mF grEtest pleZur. --/g. liktenberg.

...

a mAn Yt t rId Just Az inklinESon lIdz him; fOr wat hI rIdz Az a tAsk
wil dM him litel gUd. --/sAmjMel Jonson.



028............... 000.......... tripelo

And we learned last night that Sarah Palin says "nucular" though Joe
Biden pronounced the word correctly, with increasing emphasis, and the
moderator said it correctly also.

To switch from prescriptive to descriptive, "nucular" has been the
customary pronunciation by politicians and managers ever since Lyndon
Johnson, I think who may have originated it. The mispronunciation is
even beginning to appear in biological usage (pertaining to the cell
nucleus, that is). The word is simply pronounced differently by
managers and workers.

Bob Richmond
Knoxville, Tennessee
***************************************************
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 11:54 PM, <dshepx@...> wrote:
> As the presidential election in the United States approaches, the tone of the
> disputes between the candidates traditionally becomes ever more acrimonious.
> This particular complaint was heard in a recent rally: "I have noos (yes, noos,
> as in noospaper)for Senator (insert name of opponent)--America is not a nation
> of winers!" Well, is this an affirmation of the temperance movement, a rejection
> of French joie de vivre or Italian insouciance, or merely a pun? Hard to say.
>
> In any event, it is an argument for the utility of an initial aspiration--however one
> regards the manner of its production--in the what, when, where, and why group of
> words.
>
> Heed your elders, I say!
>
> ever more elderly,
> dshep
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

personAliti-wat-wen-wEr


...

personAliti iz relEted t H spiricjMal kwolitIz v lov, mersi, n ministri.

...

H term "god" YlwEz denOts personAliti.

dIiti, Or diviniti, mE Or mE not hAv H AtribjMt v personAliti.

...

god--H jMniversal foHer--iz H personAliti v H first sOrs n senter n Az
suc mEntEnz personal relESonz v infinit kontrOl Over Yl kO-Ordinat n
subOrdinat sOrsez n senters.

...

H potenSial personAliti v Ani mOral bIiN iz senterd in H personAliti v H
jMniversal foHer.

...

dIiti ekspAnSon, personAliti ekspreSon, n jMnivers evolMSon R fOrever
kondiSond bF H foHer'z frIwil Akt wic fOrever separEted H
mFnd-spirit-personal mIniNz n vAljMz v AkcjMAliti n potenSiAliti.

....person.tekst 137 ...nOradan