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--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Michael Everson <everson@...> wrote:
>
> On 19 Jul 2011, at 21:52, tim_rice09 wrote:
>
> > Firefox 5.0 on Fedora GNU/Linux 15. Which configuration do you use?
>
> I use Safari 5.0.5 on Mac OS 10.6.8.
>
> I think your settings are screwed up. There is no reason you should not be able to send and receive UTF-8 mail properly. Firefox is certainly Unicode-capable. I shouldn't think it would have trouble with Plane 1 characters.
>
> Anyway it's not Yahoogroups that's at fault, since I can send and receive Unicoded Shavian. I hope it's not too hard for you to check your configuration.
>
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
>

Ah, so it requires a keyboard layout to be installed.

I use Windows; I presume no one's already created a layout for that?

Hugh
On 20 Jul 2011 13:39, "Michael Everson" <everson@...> wrote:
> On 20 Jul 2011, at 00:46, Hugh Birkenhead wrote:
>
>> Indeed, Shavian is encoded in Unicode, but to be honest, I'm not sure how
to make use of it. How do I type Unicode Shavian characters?
>
> You have to have a software keyboard driver to do it. There are different
ways of making these for different platforms. I will be happy to make one
for the Mac OS and upload it. Is there as standard layout mapping?
>
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
>

Check the files section of this group under Keyboard Layouts, if it doesn't work the same layout is available at http://shavian.wordpress.com/

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...> wrote:
>
> Ah, so it requires a keyboard layout to be installed.
>
> I use Windows; I presume no one's already created a layout for that?
>
> Hugh
> On 20 Jul 2011 13:39, "Michael Everson" <everson@...> wrote:
> > On 20 Jul 2011, at 00:46, Hugh Birkenhead wrote:
> >
> >> Indeed, Shavian is encoded in Unicode, but to be honest, I'm not sure how
> to make use of it. How do I type Unicode Shavian characters?
> >
> > You have to have a software keyboard driver to do it. There are different
> ways of making these for different platforms. I will be happy to make one
> for the Mac OS and upload it. Is there as standard layout mapping?
> >
> > Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
> >
>

What Ho!

An unusual, bold abstract version of the Shavian
alphabet may be seen displayed in Illywords, an
Italian magazine of and for design, here at

http://www.illywords.com/archive-magazine/27-the-culture-of-listening/travelling-companion/

and at the apparent creator's summary page,

http://www.elenapapassissa.it/files/Elena_Papassissa_portfolio_144.pdf

(about two-thirds of the way down)

The Shavian alphabet I think has always been of
interest to graphic designers, which is not surprising.

As ever,
dshep

I have made another attempt at de-ornamenting the De Vinne Shavian.

In doing so I took the serifs off of the tall and low letters. I think it increases familiarity to people using the Helvetica-style fonts.

To start, here are the two older ornate files which differ in the shapes of four letters. Test-2 was the first one, but it seemed to me that the "ball ornament" was very distraction, and it seemed that simplifying it for SO, ZOO, MIME and NUN would be a good idea.

http://www.evertype.com/fonts/shavian/shavian-test-2.pdf

http://www.evertype.com/fonts/shavian/shavian-test-3.pdf


Here now is the newest draft:

http://www.evertype.com/fonts/shavian/shavian-test-4.pdf



What do you think? Should some other letters be de-serifed? Or is this legible enough?

Michael Everson

Nicely done. I actually liked test 3 best but the newest is great too in my estimation. Full disclosure - I am very partial to Helvitica ;-)
herb moran
On Aug 10, 2011, at 10:02 AM, Michael Everson wrote:

>
>
> I have made another attempt at de-ornamenting the De Vinne Shavian.
>
> In doing so I took the serifs off of the tall and low letters. I think it increases familiarity to people using the Helvetica-style fonts.
>
> To start, here are the two older ornate files which differ in the shapes of four letters. Test-2 was the first one, but it seemed to me that the "ball ornament" was very distraction, and it seemed that simplifying it for SO, ZOO, MIME and NUN would be a good idea.
>
> http://www.evertype.com/fonts/shavian/shavian-test-2.pdf
>
> http://www.evertype.com/fonts/shavian/shavian-test-3.pdf
>
>
> Here now is the newest draft:
>
>
> http://www.evertype.com/fonts/shavian/shavian-test-4.pdf
>
>
>
> What do you think? Should some other letters be de-serifed? Or is this legible enough?
>
> Michael Everson
>
>
>

Herbert Moran
herbmoran@...

On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 19:02, Michael Everson <everson@...> wrote:
>
> Here now is the newest draft:
>
> http://www.evertype.com/fonts/shavian/shavian-test-4.pdf
>
> What do you think? Should some other letters be de-serifed? Or is this legible enough?

A bit unusual, since I'm not used to non-Helvetica-like faces, but
reasonably legible.

The curved ends and nearly vertical middle of MIME and NUN might take
a bit of getting used to for me, but one thing I'm less certain about
are the serifs on the quarter-circle vowels: they stretch out fairly
far into the middle of the character space.

I suppose this is for optical balance? For example, in ADO, having the
right bottom serif longer than the left bottom serif so that the
character doesn't seem to "topple" to the right?

However, I think this increases confusion between EGG and AGE as well
as ASH and ICE - at least for those who grew up with Helvetica like
me. (In the font itself, AGE/ICE do have prominent down serifs on the
top bar.)

Does the font you base this on have such asymmetrical serifs at the
bottom of, say, "r" or "f"?

I think making the top serifs on EGG and ASH symmetrical (reducing the
inside one to the length of the outside one) would help legibility.
(The bottom serifs on ADO and ON might also be adjusted, for
consistency.)

And thank you for removing many of the balls from 3 to 4; I find 3
reasonably readable for short lengths (say, a book or chapter title)
but 4 does seem more readable (less distracting) to me for a longer
text.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

On 11 Aug 2011, at 09:46, Philip Newton wrote:

> The curved ends and nearly vertical middle of MIME and NUN might take
> a bit of getting used to for me,

I will have another look at these. It didn't occur to me that this would be a difficulty.

> but one thing I'm less certain about are the serifs on the quarter-circle vowels: they stretch out fairly far into the middle of the character space.

I guessed this might be the reaction.

> I suppose this is for optical balance? For example, in ADO, having the
> right bottom serif longer than the left bottom serif so that the
> character doesn't seem to "topple" to the right?

No, it's taken over from De Vinne. but I'm not wedded to it for De Vinne Shavian.

> However, I think this increases confusion between EGG and AGE as well
> as ASH and ICE - at least for those who grew up with Helvetica like
> me.

I agree with you.

> (In the font itself, AGE/ICE do have prominent down serifs on the
> top bar.)

Is that OK for you?

> Does the font you base this on have such asymmetrical serifs at the
> bottom of, say, "r" or "f"?

It does.

> I think making the top serifs on EGG and ASH symmetrical (reducing the
> inside one to the length of the outside one) would help legibility.
> (The bottom serifs on ADO and ON might also be adjusted, for
> consistency.)

I might try something like a one-sided serif as I have with WOOL and OOZE. Though no serif might also be possible.

> And thank you for removing many of the balls from 3 to 4; I find 3
> reasonably readable for short lengths (say, a book or chapter title)
> but 4 does seem more readable (less distracting) to me for a longer
> text.

Glad to hear it. Yes, the earlier drafts look very Santa-elfish to me now. ;-)

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

See a new test:
http://www.evertype.com/fonts/shavian/shavian-test-5.pdf

I see a kerning crash between DEAD and OOZE

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 18:55, Michael Everson <everson@...> wrote:
> On 11 Aug 2011, at 09:46, Philip Newton wrote:
>
>> (In the font itself, AGE/ICE do have prominent down serifs on the
>> top bar.)
>
> Is that OK for you?

Unusual but not so bad.

However, they do look comparatively large - I'd maybe shorten them by a third?

Oh, and I just saw a real blooper: your BIBs are mirror-image (they
are flipped from PEEP, rather than rotated).

>> I think making the top serifs on EGG and ASH symmetrical (reducing the
>> inside one to the length of the outside one) would help legibility.
>> (The bottom serifs on ADO and ON might also be adjusted, for
>> consistency.)
>
> I might try something like a one-sided serif as I have with WOOL and OOZE. Though no serif might also be possible.

That would match the look of - say - EAR better, not to mention the
tall/deep characters.

Though I'm not sure whether those needed to be de-seriffed; I think
that small slab serifs are less distracting than the balls.

Speaking of deep characters, those seem to end up a bit higher than
the x-height (if that's the right word in the context of Shavian);
this is most noticeable with WOE, which always looks as if it ends
just a bit too far up compared to the vowel at the right, but also
with other deep letters such as DEAD. Perhaps that's just the PDF
renderer, though (Google Docs viewer).

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>