Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

Paul,

I generally do not have much trouble viewing unicode characters other than
having to fiddle with the encoding.

I am not familiar, however, with any Unicode Shavian.
Are you able to type Unicode Shavian now?

Steve
Hi Scott
I am using Eudoria as my Mail Client, because Outlook was too Virus
Friendly. Eudoria is a very nice product with an easy to install
Shareware version. You might want to see if it has the level of
Unicode support yyou need. It is probably the 2d most common Email
program for the Windows Platform.

My Operating is Windows 98 Second edition, but I was expecting to
have to upgrade to Windows XP Pro in the near future.
I can speed up the process, if we were to have the benefit of being
able to read and write UNICODE in our E-Mail.
Regards, Paul V.

Yes you're able to do it now. Attached to this message is the latest version
of my keyboard layout for Windows XP that allows you to type in Shavian
Unicode.



Here's how to install it:



Before starting, make sure you have a font with Shavian characters at the
correct Unicode points installed - "Andagii" (www.alanwood.net/unicode/) or
Ethan's "Shavian ESL Gothic Unicode".



1) Extract the two files from the archive into one folder

2) Run "ShavianD.exe"

3) Open the XP language bar (right click taskbar, toolbars menu, language

bar)

4) Right click the language bar - click settings

5) Click your default language (probably either English US or English UK)
and click "Add..." on the right

6) Leave the "input language" as it is, and click 'keyboard layout' option
button - from dropdown list select "Shavian (DeMeyere)" - click OK button
and again at the previous window



Now, as long as a font with Shavian characters at the correct Unicode points
is selected, and you've selected the Shavian layout from the keyboard button
on the taskbar, you can type and have Shavian characters appear, providing
the application you're typing into can support Unicode. Holding down the
right Alt key (AltGr) allows you to type a conventional roman character, as
sometimes you need to.



There is a JPEG image in the zip file too (ShavianD.jpg) - this is a
screenshot of the key mapping for those who need it.



Hugh B



_____

From: stbetta@... [mailto:stbetta@...]
Sent: 20 November 2004 07:43
To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] Re: Vote on a group standard font



Paul,



I generally do not have much trouble viewing unicode characters other than
having to fiddle with the encoding.



I am not familiar, however, with any Unicode Shavian.

Are you able to type Unicode Shavian now?



Steve

Hi Scott
I am using Eudoria as my Mail Client, because Outlook was too Virus
Friendly. Eudoria is a very nice product with an easy to install
Shareware version. You might want to see if it has the level of
Unicode support yyou need. It is probably the 2d most common Email
program for the Windows Platform.

My Operating is Windows 98 Second edition, but I was expecting to
have to upgrade to Windows XP Pro in the near future.
I can speed up the process, if we were to have the benefit of being
able to read and write UNICODE in our E-Mail.
Regards, Paul V.






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Star and Paul,

There is a Romanji writing system which I can provide if anyone is interested
in it.
Star is using the word "Romanji" for any writing system that uses
traditional letter shapes.
Most reform alpahbets use 23 Roman characers and supplemnt the with 10 to 18
additional ones. Shavian is an exceptional. It drops the 23 characters that
have already been learned.

This was intentional. The rules of the alphabet competition was that the new
alphabet was not to be mistaken for badly spelled English. Since very few
English letters retain the same sound in all words, it is difficult to avoid
"bad spelling" when you are sound spelling.

Check out keyboard Unifon and ENgliS for alternative keyboard positions.
Unifon: A E I O yU schwa-c
ENgliS A E I O U schwa-a
Shaw E I F O yM schwa-a

There are dozens of possible mixed-cap keyboard friendly augmented alphabets.
Some are more readable than others.

Steve

Hi Star
I sort of agree with you but
I think the problem is more with the limitations of
the standard QWERTY Computer Keyboard than with the mapping.
I think that it's surprizing that Romanji works as well as it does.
Regards, Paul V.


--- Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...> wrote
> Have I mentioned yet this week that I hate Romanji? (aka the original
> layout for shavian?") I have always considered that when typing a
> different language, that it should have the same ease of typing, but
> should not be connected with the original. Otherwise, it can cross wire
> the brain into mixing up the symbols. Besides, you don't want that
> layout to stick but one that makes more sense.
>
> Maybe it's just me and my weekly grouse.
> --Star
>
> --- Steve wrote:
>
> > Paul and Jerry,
> >
> > It is not easier to type Shavian than Roman since you have to
> > keyhboard it in ASCII.
> > Shavian has monoline letterforms, so it is generally faster to
> > handwrite.
> >
> > Shavian is not the easiest phonemic writing system to type since it
> > includes combinations that are accessed with arbitrary and not always
> > intuitive keyboard keys.
> >
> > Keyboard Shavian uses the Latin front vowels E & I rather than the
> > familiar vowel-shifted A E.
> > No problem if you are familiar with IPA or a Latin-based foreign language
but
> > otherwise a little difficult.
> > Rather than sticking with IPA and using aI for "eye", The Shavian font
> > assigns this diphthong to F. F might make sense as a keyboard
> > assignment in PMF
> > because ah=c which is stacked on top of an I. This makes the
> > diphthong character
> > look something like an F. Some of the keyboard assignments are
> > based on such shape analogies.
> >
> > This is probably my main critique of the keyboard assignments.

Shavian enthusiasts,
Does someone want to come up with a better Shavian transcription for these
words?
abnPmal, akseptabal, sAdal, Yfal, Yl fUl, yfal, Apl, ilMZan, AlMZan, imaj,
imAjan
abnYrmal, akseptabal, sAdal, Yfal, Yl fUl, yfal, Apl, ilMZan, AlMZan, imaj,
imAjan

ENgliS: abnormal akseptabl, sqdl, ofl, ol fvl, cfal, qpl, ilwZan, clwZan,
imaj, imqjan
ANSIFANSI: àbnormàl, àcseptàbl, sadl, olfl, ôl ful, öfl, apl, iúzhàn,
àlúzhàn, imàj, ìmajìn
WEBSTER: ab'norm&l, &ksept&bl, sad&l, of&l, äf&l, ol ful, ap&l, &lüZ&n, im&j,
i'maj&n
http://foolswisdom.com/~sbett/shavian-short.htm

http://foolswisdom.com/~sbett/englis-short.htm

Regularized Transcriptions
TraditionalRegularized Spelling86%+ Phonemic Notations
WordCut Spelling RITE
transcription Truespel
transcription transcription
abnormal
acceptable
saddle
awlful
all full
offal
apple
illusion
allusion
image
imagineabnorml
acceptabl
sadl
awlfl
all full?
offl
apl
ilusion
alusion
image
imaginabnormal
akseptable
saddl
awful
awl ful
offal
appl
ilusion iluuzhan
alusion
imij imaj
imajjanabnnormool
aksseptibool
sadool
aulfool
aul fool
aufool
apool
illuezhin
ulluezhin
imij
immajinabnormal or abnorml
acsepptabal -
saddal or saddl
awlfal or awlfl
ol fvl or awl fvl
offal or ofl
appal or appl
iluuzhan
aluuzhan
imaj immij
imajjin imadjin

• q-ref dictionaries • ozideas • • IPA converter • Soundspel
• www.foolswisdom.com/~sbett • •
ANSIFANSI: àbnormàl, àcseptàbl, sadl, olfl, ôlful, ôl ful, apl, iúzhàn,
àlúzhàn, imàj, ìmajìn
SHAW: abnormal, akseptabal, sAdal, olfVl, ol fVl, Apl, ilMZan, AlMZan, imaj,
imAjan

All this talk about keyboards has inspired me to throw one more suggestion
(orr digression) into the works - a hardware solution.

I have been experimenting with a compact, one-handed keyboard to type
Shavian. It has 15 letter keys, which are shifted by modifier keys, providing the
whole range of a regular keyboard. It's the size of an index card and works
with any computer or PDA.

The advantages:

Unlike QUERTY, the keyboard layout is based on letter frequency (as is the
Dvorak). After a lot of research, I found that letter frequency in TO and sound
frequency in Shavian are close enough that this can be a real advantage to
speedy typing, even using the existing font mapping.

Since no current keyboard will hold all the Shavian letters without some
shifting anyway, you might as well have a keyboard where shifting has been
optimized ergonomically. For example, to hit the second-level 15 letters, you
simultaneously hit a modifier key with your thumb and a letter key. Sounds
weird, but works great. To hit the caps, you hit the cap shift followed by the
letter key.

If you are going to learn a keyboard mapping for Shavian, you are probably
better off learning it on a unique keyboard, so that you don't have the mental
gymnastics of shifting back and forth. The old and the new keyboards can live
side by side on the desk, and you use each to its best advantage. You can
even put Shavian stickers on the keys - and leave them there till they rot.

The device can be seen at www.frogpad.com. It comes in left handed and
right handed models.

PS: This was not a paid advertisement.

PPS: One-handed typing is not to be confused with one-handed reading.

Hi Scott

First We are talking about the mapping, not the Transcription. You
only see the Roman letters, because you are not using the proper
Shavian Font. Don't confuse the issue, Just because the Shaw key in
its raw form shows a Roman Letter, it doesn't mean that there is any
intention to use Shaw as an improved Roman alphabet like Uniform.

That being said, I suppose it is possible to have more than one
mapping, albeit with more chances for confusion.

While I like the current mapping, I can conceive that there might be
better ones.

Obviously, since we are trying to match the 48 Shaw Letters onto a
26 letter character set and their associated Capitals, any mapping
will be less than ideal. The current Shavian mappining is based on
the IPA Alphabet. If you are familar with IPA, it makes a lot of
sense.
A mapping based more on the Roman Letters, would be possible.
Many Roman Letters have an alternate pronunciation flagged by a
silent "e" or an immediately following "h" or maybe a "g".
(i.e. ch, th, sh, ph, ng)
So the primary or simple Roman pronunciation of the letter would map
to the equivalent Shaw Letter. And the Capital letter would map to
the most common alternate pronunciation for the letter. This would
map the Shaw th letters to Capital T and Capital D. It would map the
Shaw letters Yea and Yew to "y" and Capital "Y", for instance.
There would still be some left-over sounds that would have to given
arbitrarily matched Capital letters or preferably one of the many
unused special characters on the Keyboard.
(i.e. !,@,#,$,%,^,&,*,=,+,?,:,;,')



--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, stbetta@a... wrote:
> Shavian enthusiasts,
> Does someone want to come up with a better Shavian transcription
for these
>

Actually, I meant it in the corellation between shavian phonemic
letters and roman characters. kick to k tot to t and so forth.

--Star

--- stbetta@... wrote:

> Star and Paul,
>
> There is a Romanji writing system which I can provide if anyone is
> interested
> in it.
> Star is using the word "Romanji" for any writing system that uses
> traditional letter shapes.
> Most reform alpahbets use 23 Roman characers and supplemnt the with
> 10 to 18
> additional ones. Shavian is an exceptional. It drops the 23
> characters that
> have already been learned.
>
> This was intentional. The rules of the alphabet competition was that
> the new
> alphabet was not to be mistaken for badly spelled English. Since
> very few
> English letters retain the same sound in all words, it is difficult
> to avoid
> "bad spelling" when you are sound spelling.
>
> Check out keyboard Unifon and ENgliS for alternative keyboard
> positions.
> Unifon: A E I O yU schwa-c
> ENgliS A E I O U schwa-a
> Shaw E I F O yM schwa-a
>
> There are dozens of possible mixed-cap keyboard friendly augmented
> alphabets.
> Some are more readable than others.
>
> Steve
>
> Hi Star
> I sort of agree with you but
> I think the problem is more with the limitations of
> the standard QWERTY Computer Keyboard than with the mapping.
> I think that it's surprizing that Romanji works as well as it does.
> Regards, Paul V.
>
>
> --- Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...> wrote
> > Have I mentioned yet this week that I hate Romanji? (aka the
> original
> > layout for shavian?") I have always considered that when typing a
> > different language, that it should have the same ease of typing,
> but
> > should not be connected with the original. Otherwise, it can cross
> wire
> > the brain into mixing up the symbols. Besides, you don't want that
> > layout to stick but one that makes more sense.
> >
> > Maybe it's just me and my weekly grouse.
> > --Star
> >
> > --- Steve wrote:
> >
> > > Paul and Jerry,
> > >
> > > It is not easier to type Shavian than Roman since you have to
> > > keyhboard it in ASCII.
> > > Shavian has monoline letterforms, so it is generally faster to
> > > handwrite.
> > >
> > > Shavian is not the easiest phonemic writing system to type since
> it
> > > includes combinations that are accessed with arbitrary and not
> always
> > > intuitive keyboard keys.
> > >
> > > Keyboard Shavian uses the Latin front vowels E & I rather than
> the
> > > familiar vowel-shifted A E.
> > > No problem if you are familiar with IPA or a Latin-based foreign
> language
> but
> > > otherwise a little difficult.
> > > Rather than sticking with IPA and using aI for "eye", The Shavian
> font
> > > assigns this diphthong to F. F might make sense as a keyboard
> > > assignment in PMF
> > > because ah=c which is stacked on top of an I. This makes the
> > > diphthong character
> > > look something like an F. Some of the keyboard assignments are
> > > based on such shape analogies.
> > >
> > > This is probably my main critique of the keyboard assignments.
>


====http://www.livejournal.com/users/wodentoad

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McBroom,

I see no reason to stick with the legacy touch typing arrangement [QWERTY]
for
compact keyboards. Have you have any success selling the proposal
to manufacturers?

Since retiring, I have been a literacy teacher. I have tried to teach
spelling using
a Franklin hand held WordMaster speller. The problem is that there is no way
to
enter a phonemic version of the unknown word and getting back the lexical
spelling.

What you do is invent a spelling and the device usually gives you five
possible words.
Usually, you can choose the one you are looking for from the list.

You can see how this works at www.m-w.com Invent a spelling and you will be
given a list of possible words.

I think the easiest unigraphic sound spelling system is Unifon. I don't like
some of the arbitrary assignments but a few of these are inevitable. My
attempt to improve on Unifon was ENgliS. www.foolswisdom.com/~sbett/ Look for
ENgliS

The input system should probably be based on the most intuitive letter-sound
correpondence. This /aI/ will be a cap-I not an F. /ei/ will be a cap-A not
an cap-E.

--Steve


mcbroom1946@... writes:
All this talk about keyboards has inspired me to throw one more suggestion
(orr digression) into the works - a hardware solution.

I have been experimenting with a compact, one-handed keyboard to type
Shavian. It has 15 letter keys, which are shifted by modifier keys, providing
the
whole range of a regular keyboard. It's the size of an index card and works
with any computer or PDA.

The advantages:

Unlike QUERTY, the keyboard layout is based on letter frequency (as is the
Dvorak). After a lot of research, I found that letter frequency in TO and
sound
frequency in Shavian are close enough that this can be a real advantage to
speedy typing, even using the existing font mapping.

Since no current keyboard will hold all the Shavian letters without some
shifting anyway, you might as well have a keyboard where shifting has been
optimized ergonomically. For example, to hit the second-level 15 letters, you
simultaneously hit a modifier key with your thumb and a letter key. Sounds
weird, but works great. To hit the caps, you hit the cap shift followed by
the
letter key.

If you are going to learn a keyboard mapping for Shavian, you are probably
better off learning it on a unique keyboard, so that you don't have the
mental
gymnastics of shifting back and forth. The old and the new keyboards can live
side by side on the desk, and you use each to its best advantage. You can
even put Shavian stickers on the keys - and leave them there till they rot.

The device can be seen at www.frogpad.com. It comes in left handed and
right handed models.

PS: This was not a paid advertisement.

PPS: One-handed typing is not to be confused with one-handed reading.

Paul,

There is a transcription issue here.

In other postings I was talking about mappings and whether or not the
keyboard map used for the Shavian fonts was the optimal one.

I listed my transcription of some difficult words and requested some better
transcriptions.

Here is another trail transcription. I don't think there are any difficult
words here but I may
be wrong. In this snippet, you can also see other keyboard mapings. I think
the other keyboard maps are more readable than keyboard shavian. --Steve

Tricodal Transcription:
H /lPd iz mF SepDd; display Shavian Lionspaw
H /lPd iz mF SepDd; keyboard Shaw
Dc /lxrd iz mI Sepcrd keyboard Unifon
D3 *L^RD IZ MÍ SEP3RD simulated display Unifon
Ð Lord iz mý shepèrd - ANCI FANCI

All three transcriptions are equally phonemic or nearly so. AF can get a
little sloppy since the unstressed e and a are not always marked. The last one
{AF} retains traditional upper case letters and traditional digraphs such as sh
and ch. The first two notations are unigraphic. Unifon also has unigraphic
diphthongs.

F SAl nyt wYnt display Shaw
F SAl nyt wYnt. keyboard Shaw
I Sal not wxnt. keyboard Unifon
Í shal nöt [nät] wont - ANCI FANCI

hI mEkaT mI t lF dQn in grIn pAscDz:
display Shaw
hI mEkaT mI t lF dQn in grIn pAscDz:
keyboard Shaw
hE mAkcT mE tU lI dqn in grEn pasKcrz: keyboard Unifon
hé máketh mé tú lý daun in grén pascherz: - ANCI FANCI


First We are talking about the mapping, not the Transcription. You
only see the Roman letters, because you are not using the proper
Shavian Font. Don't confuse the issue, Just because the Shaw key in
its raw form shows a Roman Letter, it doesn't mean that there is any
intention to use Shaw as an improved Roman alphabet like Uniform.

That being said, I suppose it is possible to have more than one
mapping, albeit with more chances for confusion.

While I like the current mapping, I can conceive that there might be
better ones.

Obviously, since we are trying to match the 48 Shaw Letters onto a
26 letter character set and their associated Capitals, any mapping
will be less than ideal. The current Shavian mappining is based on
the IPA Alphabet. If you are familar with IPA, it makes a lot of
sense.

A mapping based more on the Roman Letters, would be possible.
Many Roman Letters have an alternate pronunciation flagged by a
silent "e" or an immediately following "h" or maybe a "g".
(i.e. ch, th, sh, ph, ng)

So the primary or simple Roman pronunciation of the letter would map
to the equivalent Shaw Letter. And the Capital letter would map to
the most common alternate pronunciation for the letter. This would
map the Shaw th letters to Capital T and Capital D. It would map the
Shaw letters Yea and Yew to "y" and Capital "Y", for instance.
There would still be some left-over sounds that would have to given
arbitrarily matched Capital letters or preferably one of the many
unused special characters on the Keyboard.
(i.e. !,@,#,$,%,^,&,*,=,+,?,:,;,')



--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, stbetta@a... wrote:
> Shavian enthusiasts,
> Does someone want to come up with a better Shavian transcription for these

I’d say those transcriptions are absolutely perfect…



…apart from use of j instead of J.



Hugh B



_____

From: stbetta@... [mailto:stbetta@...]
Sent: 21 November 2004 03:29
To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Shavian@yahoogroups.com; mbug@yahoogroups.com;
euro-english@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shawalphabet] Transcription challenge



Shavian enthusiasts,

Does someone want to come up with a better Shavian transcription for these
words?

abnPmal, akseptabal, sAdal, Yfal, Yl fUl, yfal, Apl, ilMZan, AlMZan, imaj,
imAjan

abnYrmal, akseptabal, sAdal, Yfal, Yl fUl, yfal, Apl, ilMZan, AlMZan, imaj,
imAjan

ENgliS: abnormal akseptabl, sqdl, ofl, ol fvl, cfal, qpl, ilwZan, clwZan,
imaj, imqjan
ANSIFANSI: àbnormàl, àcseptàbl, sadl, olfl, ôl ful, öfl, apl, iúzhàn,
àlúzhàn, imàj, ìmajìn
WEBSTER: ab'norm&l, &ksept&bl, sad&l, of&l, äf&l, ol ful, ap&l, &lüZ&n,
im&j, i'maj&n

http://foolswisdom.com/~sbett/shavian-short.htm


http://foolswisdom.com/~sbett/englis-short.htm


<http://foolswisdom.com/~sbett/> green bar
Regularized Transcriptions


Traditional

Regularized Spelling

86%+ Phonemic Notations


Word

Cut Spelling

RITE
transcription

<http://www.unifon.org/truespel.html> Truespel
transcription

transcription


abnormal
acceptable
saddle
awlful
all full
offal
apple
illusion
allusion
image
imagine

abnorml
acceptabl
sadl
awlfl
all full?
offl
apl
ilusion
alusion
image
imagin

abnormal
akseptable
saddl
awful
awl ful
offal
appl
ilusion iluuzhan
alusion
imij imaj
imajjan

abnnormool
aksseptibool
sadool
aulfool
aul fool
aufool
apool
illuezhin
ulluezhin
imij
immajin

abnormal or abnorml
acsepptabal -
saddal or saddl
awlfal or awlfl
ol fvl or awl fvl
offal or ofl
appal or appl
iluuzhan
aluuzhan
imaj immij
imajjin imadjin

• q-ref
<file:///C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Steve%20Bett\My%20Documents\My%20Webs
\q-ref.html> dictionaries • ozideas
<http://home.vicnet.net.au/~ozideas> •
<http://www.foreignword/dictionary/truespel/tradspel.htm> truespel converter
• IPA
<http://www.ccl.umist.ac.uk/staff/toby/Reformed_Spelling_in_CALL/plaintext.h
tml> converter • Soundspel
• www.foolswisdom.com/~sbett • •

ANSIFANSI: àbnormàl, àcseptàbl, sadl, olfl, ôlful, ôl ful, apl, iúzhàn,
àlúzhàn, imàj, ìmajìn
SHAW: abnormal, akseptabal, sAdal, olfVl, ol fVl, Apl, ilMZan, AlMZan,
imaj, imAjan








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