Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

Calling all!

Has anybody written anything original in shavian? I would like to
read something new and that can't be read in roman.

If anybody has any writings on any topic please can you direct me to
them or them to me?

Thanks
Joseph


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Hi Star & Hugh
I find the word stress is too misleading. I think you referring to
what syllable is being accented/accentuated in a multi-syllabic word.
An Accented syllable is both louder and longer than its un-accented
counterpart.
As for the word, Murmur, whatever slight difference between the 2
syllables, is for me, simply that the second syllable is held a
little longer. Since most people report that the accent is on the
first syllable, I conclude that accent/stress varies even more widely
than accent/sound variation between different accent groups and so
should be ignored when determining the appropriate Shaw Character.

Regards, Paul V.
P.S. I regard the Schwa as a minimal vowel sound, sufficiently
different in length from the other vowels to need a separate
character. It can be pronounced as loudly as the other vowels, when
it starts a word.
For example, Along in the 2 following sentences has different levels
of stress for a leading Schwa.
I took him a long way around.
I took him along, way around to the back.

Regards, Paul V

--- In shavian@..., Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...>
wrote:
> Joseph, that seems to be the six million dollar question. I also
have
> no problem with unstressed versus stressed sylables as the ones you
> described, but it's harder to explain sometimes why there
are "two /u/
> sounds" to some people, who often don't consider stress.
>
> --Star
>
> --- Joseph Smith <stetsdigs@h...> wrote:
> > Hi Hugh
> >
> > Perhaps americans have a different stress system? I can't believe
> > this to be true, but i'm baffled as to why 'up' and 'ado'
or 'err'
> > and 'array' are ever confused. To me they sound wholly different.
> >
> > Perhaps the best example I can think of is 'murmur' which is not
a
> > repetitive syllable, but two distinct vowels sounds,
> > contrasting 'err' and 'array'. What do speakers with other
accents
> > think?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Joseph
> >
> > --- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Joseph Smith" <stetsdigs@h...>
> > > To: <shavian@...>
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 6:56 PM
> > > Subject: [shavian] Re: Moving Forward...
> > >
> > >
> > > > Wow! It seems that you've found a whole load, but I'll take
them
> > on
> > > > board for certain. Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > How about an online news site instead of a newspaper, for
now?
> > This
> > > > way there would always be something new, and the makers of
the
> > webite
> > > > would have no need to think up content. It would be the first
> > rung on
> > > > the ladder to a daily paper. What do you think?
> > >
> > > I had this idea. It was over four years ago. Obviously it never
> > happened,
> > > although the desire to create such a site is still in my mind.
It
> > was going
> > > to be on www.shavian.org. I haven't had the time recently to
think
> > about
> > > it...
> > >
> > > The shavian forums were going to be an integral part of the new
> > site - but
> > > they haven't really taken off.
> > >
> > > > I was under the impression that schwa was an unstressed vowel
> > (with
> > > > short i) and that English had a natural rhythm so that two
> > stressed
> > > > syllables did not stand next to on another. This rule seems
to
> > hold
> > > > good (except foreign words and compounds). This is why I
think a
> > word
> > > > like 'arrange' has 'a' at the beginning and not 'x' or 'X'.
> > >
> > > BANG ON. This explains PERFECTLY the schwa and schwer vowels in
> > Shavian.
> > >
> > > > I do intend to update the wordlist (I am inputting your
spellings
> >
> > on
> > > > the list on my computer) and intend to put it on the net.
> > > > Unfortunately I can't get unicode working well enough to edit
or
> > type
> > > > in it, so I guess it'll have to be font-based.
> > >
> > > If you have Windows XP, you can download Microsoft's Keyboard
> > Layout Editor
> > > from their website. It allows you to make your own preferred
layout
> >
> > using
> > > Unicode characters (you need the "Shaw Sans no.2 with Arial"
font
> > to do
> > > this).
> > >
> > > > The structure of my site is made, and I am writing a short
> > article
> > > > about the new architecture and sculpture in Manchester. (Also
> > have
> > > > someone new interested in Shavian by way of telling them
about
> > what
> > > > I'm doing, so that is good news.)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Joseph
> > >
> > > Hugh B
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> From the very beginning, all beings are Buddha. --Zen Master
Hakuin
>
> __________________________________
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On Saturday, Nov 1, 2003, at 00:29 Europe/Paris, Joseph Smith wrote:

> ...to have a gander at the beginnings of my webpages at
>
> stetsdigs.tripod.com
>
>
The menu and the link to the yahoo page are in Shavian. However, the
home page and the logos page are in Roman characters (admittedly if you
apply a non-Unicode font to them they would display at Shavian).

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86


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Hi folks,

For the next month I will be sharing Basic English words whose pronouncation were determined by the merrium-webster dictionary.

come -- kum
get -- get
give -- giv
go -- gO
keep -- kIp
let -- let
make -- mEk
put -- pUt
seem -- sIm
take -- tEk
be -- bI
do -- dM
have -- hAv, hav
say -- sE
see -- sI
send -- send
may -- mE
will -- wil
about -- abQt
across -- akros
after -- AftD
against -- agenst
among -- amuN
at -- at, At
before -- bifP
between -- bitwIn
by -- bF, ba

Hope these help the cause,

best regards,

Carl

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I.F.E. internashunal fonetik english

t = to e = the v = of n = and

AEIOU az in Age Eat Ice Oak yoU

digrafs: ah au ch oo ou oi/oy sh th zh.

http://groups.msn.com/konsosiashunforspiritualiti

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Thanks for looking at what ive done so far

I unfortunately have to work in non-unicode for long pieces of text.
I have tried all of the keyboard makers and unicode editors I can
found, but none of them seem to work.

It would be much better if they were in unicode as then everybody
could read them. I could also put roman on the same page (but I don't
want to).

If you know of anything I could use (tried unipad, emeditor, tavulte
(?) keys, microsoft's own layout editor) please put me onto it.

Thanks
Joseph


--- In shavian@..., Scott Harrison <scott@m...> wrote:
>
> On Saturday, Nov 1, 2003, at 00:29 Europe/Paris, Joseph Smith wrote:
>
> > ...to have a gander at the beginnings of my webpages at
> >
> > stetsdigs.tripod.com
> >
> >
> The menu and the link to the yahoo page are in Shavian.
However, the
> home page and the logos page are in Roman characters (admittedly if
you
> apply a non-Unicode font to them they would display at Shavian).
>
> --
> Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86


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11/05/03 12:39:36 PM, "Joseph Smith" <stetsdigs@...> wrote:

>Thanks for looking at what ive done so far
>
>I unfortunately have to work in non-unicode for long pieces of text.
>I have tried all of the keyboard makers and unicode editors I can
>found, but none of them seem to work.
>
>It would be much better if they were in unicode as then everybody
>could read them. I could also put roman on the same page (but I don't
>want to).
>
>If you know of anything I could use (tried unipad, emeditor, tavulte
>(?) keys, microsoft's own layout editor) please put me onto it.
>
>Thanks
>Joseph

My experience with Unicode Shavian so far has been mixed. It seems that a lot
of browsers and/or operating systems don't work well with Unicode in the higher
ranges, that is, 3-6 byte/character UTF-8. And when you get into plane 1, where
the Shavian allocation is, you have even less success.

But if you want a unicode editor that works, try Yudit. I have had good success
with Yudit under Linux, and they have a Windows version too.

>
>
>--- In shavian@..., Scott Harrison <scott@m...> wrote:
>>
>> On Saturday, Nov 1, 2003, at 00:29 Europe/Paris, Joseph Smith wrote:
>>
>> > ...to have a gander at the beginnings of my webpages at
>> >
>> > stetsdigs.tripod.com
>> >
>> >
>> The menu and the link to the yahoo page are in Shavian.
>However, the
>> home page and the logos page are in Roman characters (admittedly if
>you
>> apply a non-Unicode font to them they would display at Shavian).
>>
>> --
>> Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Ethan
The chicken came first.



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Hi folks,

This is the next installment of Basic English words with merriam-webster dictionary pronouncation.

down - dQn
from - frum, frYm
in - in
off - of
on - on, Yn
over - OvD
through - TrM
to - ta, tM
under - undD, andD
up - up
with - wiH, wiT
as - az, Az
for - fD, fP
of - uv, Yv
till - til
than - Hun, HAn
a - a, E
the - Ha
all - ol
any -enI
every - evrI
little - lital, litl
much - muc
no - nO
other - uHD
some - sum
such - suc, sic

As before I hope these words help the cause,

Carl

carl easton <shavintel16@...> wrote:

Hi folks,

For the next month I will be sharing Basic English words whose pronouncation were determined by the merrium-webster dictionary.

come -- kum
get -- get
give -- giv
go -- gO
keep -- kIp
let -- let
make -- mEk
put -- pUt
seem -- sIm
take -- tEk
be -- bI
do -- dM
have -- hAv, hav
say -- sE
see -- sI
send -- send
may -- mE
will -- wil
about -- abQt
across -- akros
after -- AftD
against -- agenst
among -- amuN
at -- at, At
before -- bifP
between -- bitwIn
by -- bF, ba

Hope these help the cause,

best regards,

Carl


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````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

re: diversiti:

msj:

... In an infinite world there a lot more than

one of anything. Improvements come from debate. (Dialacitics?)

And from a scientific understanding, evolution is based on variation

and mutation. Not on ideals. As the world changes, so must life in

its myrid forms.

Regards, Paul V.

```````````````````````````````````

ghoti --fiS font:

spIkiN H sEm lANgwaJ fAsilitEts komjMnikESun. stil, kompErativ liNgwistiks yr interestiN. wI hAv befOr us H promis v unlimited progres; Qr opOrtMnitIz yr bQndles. mOst v us in H jM.es. sIm t hAv H tendensI v "IHer|Or" TiNkiN--if wun TiN iz trM, H oHer must bI fYls. wI Yfen wunder hQ 2 TiNz, sO diferent from wun AnoHer, kAn bOT bI trM.

divarsiti iz wun v H kerAktaristiks v yrt, inklMdiN H yrts v lANgwaJ n literatjUr.

it hAz ben repOrted HAt Her yr 700,000 lANgwaJez in H lOkul jMniversez wiT som 70,000,000 mOr in Her lOkul sistemz. --pEJ 504 trMTbUk.kom Ent HAt a mFnd-bogler?

===========================================

dooplikat for kEbord kompArison:

spIkiN H sEm lANgwaJ fAsilitEts komjMnikESun. stil, kompErativ liNgwistiks yr interestiN. wI hAv befOr us H promis v unlimited progres; Qr opOrtMnitIz yr bQndles. mOst v us in H jM.es. sIm t hAv H tendensI v "IHer|Or" TiNkiN--if wun TiN iz trM, H oHer must bI fYls. wI Yfen wunder hQ 2 TiNz, sO diferent from wun AnoHer, kAn bOT bI trM.

divarsiti iz wun v H kerAktaristiks v yrt, inklMdiN H yrts v lANgwaJ n literatjUr.

it hAz ben repOrted HAt Her yr 700,000 lANgwaJez in H lOkul jMniversez wiT som 70,000,000 mOr in Her lOkul sistemz. --pEJ 504 trMTbUk.kom Ent HAt a mFnd-bogler?

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''




I.F.E. internashunal fonetik english

t = to e = the v = of n = and

A E I O U az in Age Eat ... yoU

http://groups.msn.com/konsosiashunforspiritualiti

www.geocities.com/kfs111/konsosiashun.html <http://www.geocities.com/kfs111/konsosiashun.html>


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Hello Everyone.

F dOnt nO hQ menI lANgweJaz R in Vs in His wxald.
HX R vXIiN estamets. but F dM nO H koman lANgweJaz in H intXnet.

(I don't know how many languages are in use in this world.
There are varying estimates. But I do know the common languages in
the internet.)

There are approximately 172 million English speakers and 163 million
non-English speakers online" (Global Reach)
"50% of Web Users speak a native language other than English, with
none of other 8 common Internet languages used by more than 10% of
the Web users."
Alternate Internet Languages.
1. Japanese
2. German
3. French
4. Italian
5. Russian
6. Korean
7. Spanish/Portuguese
8. Chinese
40% of the Internet users have an inadequate grasp of English, and
mostly use there native language.

"Web users are up to four times more likely to purchase from a site
that communicates in the customer's language" (www.idc.com)
"Site stickiness is doubled when a web site is translated - visitors
stay for twice as long" (Forrester Research)
"Almost one-third of web sites are presented in a language other than
English" (Messaging Online)
"37 million Americans do not speak English at home" (US Department of
Health)
"Over 100 million people access the Internet in a language other than
English"

These statistics all suggest there is a big market for a Simplified
English Internet Interface with a simplified Alphabet (Shavian) and
it is growing stronger every day.

This diversity of Web=users demands improvement and the dessemination
of the Shaw Alphabet.

Regards, Paul V.


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