Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

I agree, especially how you replaced the abbreviated words, such as
and. Perhaps a simple collection of short stories or quotes from PD
books ranging from Goldilocks and the Three bears to the bible (or
other holy text) to one of the classics. "Call me Ishmael." Meanwhile,
those of us who are on the list can be transcribing the classics and PD
works into shavian.

--Star

--- "Ph. D." <phild@...> wrote:
> Star Raven skribis:
> >
> > I agree, however, that replacing single sounds within words is a
> bad
> > idea. The entire alphabet should be presented, and perhaps small
> words
> > and then larger words within sentances, and finally sentances
> should be
> > replaced. Would this work?
>
>
> Yes. I'd start with the short common words: is,
> are, was, the pronouns, demonstratives, some
> conjunctions. For example, if the following text
> appeared on the first page, the words in quotes
> would be in Shavian:
>
> # "I" agree, however, "that" replacing single
> # sounds within words "is" "a" bad idea. "The"
> # entire alphabet should "be" presented, "and"
> # perhaps small words "and" "then" larger words
> # within sentances, "and" finally sentances should
> # "be" replaced. Would "this" work?
>
> On the next page, more short common words could
> be introduced. Eventually the entire text would be in
> Shavian. For children, Dr. Suess is good because
> short common words are repeated over and over
> along with rhyming words. A Dr. Suess book could
> be entirely in Shavian.
>
> --Ph. D.
>
>
>


=====
The Piscean Warrior:
Protector of the Innocent
Defender of the Weak
Wanderer of the Off

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Hello? any women at all? Maybe that's what we need... more women!

I am on Linux, but I'm having a terrible time trying to learn it. I do
have a font, I think, or two, only I haven't taught my wordprocessor
(openoffice.org) to read it.

--Star

--- Ethan <ethanl@...> wrote:
> 12/02/03 8:05:32 AM, Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@...> wrote:
>
> >The fact remains, gentlemen, that what you see below is all that I
> can
> >see... Romanji gibberish. I don't have the capacity to display
> Shavian.
> >
> >--Star
> >
> >p.s. Am I the only woman here?
>
> Hmm. I see your point. Now, why is it you can't display Shavian?
> Do you use
> someone else's computer, or is it a limitation of your operating
> system? If so,
> are you using Linux or some other Unix? I might be able to help. I
> use Linux
> myself (though I'm not today, but wish I was!) and I am able to
> display all the
> Shavian fonts without difficulty.
>
> I also can't say if you are the only woman here! Sorry!
>
> Ethan
>
> (Shavian version attached)
>
---------------------------------

The fact remains, gentlemen, that what you see below is all that I
cansee... Romanji gibberish. I don't have the capacity to display
Shavian.
--Star
p.s. Am I the only woman here?
hmm. F sI jP pqnt. nQ, wF iz it V kAnt displE /SEvWn? dM V Vz sumwun
elsez kumpVtD, P iz it alimitESan v jP opDEtiN sistam? if sO, R V Vzin
/linaks P sum uHD /Vniks? F mFt bI Ebl t help. F Vz/linuks mFself (HO
Fm not tMdE, but wiS F wuz!) n F Am Ebl t displE yl H /SEvWn fonts
wiTQt difikultI.
F ylsO kAnt sE if V R H OnlI wUman hC! sRI!
/ITan



=====
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Protector of the Innocent
Defender of the Weak
Wanderer of the Off

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C. Paige Gabhart incurred the wrath of Bob on Dec 3, by saying

>Ethan,
>
>I am using Redhat Linux. What is the easy way to display the Shavian fonts.
>

The vital piece of information is, what version of XFree86 are you
using? Recent versions support a ~/.fonts directory. Simply get your
TrueType Shavian fonts from one of the many fine sites, stick it in your
~/.fonts directory (make one if you don't have one already), log out and
log back in (I'm not sure you even have to do this), and boom, your
fonts should be available to any app that uses Xft fonts. Visit
http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html after installing for a
quick check to see whether it works (scroll down to the bottom and see
if you don't see our beloved squiggles). I've got it working in
Mozilla, but I built Mozilla myself, making sure to include Xft support,
so I don't know if the Mozilla that comes with your version of Red Hat
will have that or not. I haven't really gone much beyond getting it to
work in Mozilla, though. Don't remember if this works in
OpenOffice.org, for example. See
http://www.xfree86.org/4.3.0/fonts2.html#4 for more info on this.

Of course, if your Red Hat is more than two years old, little of this
applies. I was able to display Shavian on Red Hat 7.3 as long ago as
two years, I think, but it was more complicated back then, and I no
longer remember.

--
Cheers,
Bob Schmertz


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Hi Hugh
I think your Shavian Forums at www.shavian.org are great.
I was even willing to make a small Financial contribution to Philip
to keep it going for the time being, but I don't know how to get a
physical letter to him. Do you have contact with him. Maybe I can
route the money thru you.
I would prefer to send it thru the mail.
You do appear to be working together in this matter.
Feel free to send information directly to pvandenbrink@....
Regards, Paul V.
_________________________attached___________________________

--- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
wrote:
> Are you new? Or have you been lurking? Either way, hello! :)
>
> Maybe the Shavian forum is the best place after all as it's a
universally
> accessible web page. All you need is a Shavian font.
>
> There have always been problems with viewing HTML mail...
>
> Hugh B
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Warner" <john.warner@l...>
> To: <shavian@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Shavian] Hello and Goodbye
>
>
> > In message <20031202130532.16152.qmail@w...>, Star
> > Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...> writes
> > >The fact remains, gentlemen, that what you see below is all
that I can
> > >see... Romanji gibberish. I don't have the capacity to display
Shavian.
> > >
> > >--Star
> > >
> > >p.s. Am I the only woman here?
> > >
> >
> > Dear Star,
> >
> > As to whether you are the only woman - I cannot answer but when I
> > receive e-mails with Shavian script in them I do the following
(as I
> > have problems with HTML e-mails too):
> >
> > 1 copy the text out for the e-mail.
> > 2 place in a word processor or (as I prefer) a text editor
> > 3 change the font to one of the Shavian ones
> > 4 I then can read the message as it was intended.
> >
> > I know it is a bit cumbersome but it is worth doing as it is
good for
> > practising reading.
> >
> > John Warner.
> > --
> > John Warner
> >
> > john.warner@l...
> >
> > --
> > John Warner
> >
> > john.warner@l...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >


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12/03/03 12:13:31 PM, Bob Schmertz <rschmertz@...> wrote:

>C. Paige Gabhart incurred the wrath of Bob on Dec 3, by saying
>
>>Ethan,
>>
>>I am using Redhat Linux. What is the easy way to display the Shavian fonts.
>>
>
>The vital piece of information is, what version of XFree86 are you
>using? Recent versions support a ~/.fonts directory. Simply get your
>TrueType Shavian fonts from one of the many fine sites, stick it in your
>~/.fonts directory (make one if you don't have one already), log out and
>log back in (I'm not sure you even have to do this), and boom, your
>fonts should be available to any app that uses Xft fonts. Visit
>http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html after installing for a
>quick check to see whether it works (scroll down to the bottom and see
>if you don't see our beloved squiggles). I've got it working in
>Mozilla, but I built Mozilla myself, making sure to include Xft support,
>so I don't know if the Mozilla that comes with your version of Red Hat
>will have that or not. I haven't really gone much beyond getting it to
>work in Mozilla, though. Don't remember if this works in
>OpenOffice.org, for example. See
>http://www.xfree86.org/4.3.0/fonts2.html#4 for more info on this.
>
>Of course, if your Red Hat is more than two years old, little of this
>applies. I was able to display Shavian on Red Hat 7.3 as long ago as
>two years, I think, but it was more complicated back then, and I no
>longer remember.
>
>--
>Cheers,
>Bob Schmertz

Yes, that is one way - and there are others, too.

One easy (hopefully!) way is to use the true-type font support built into
Mozilla (assuming you have a more recent standard build of Mozilla - it's always
good to keep that up to date). You also need to have the FreeType library
installed on your system. It has been in use for some time in common Linux
distros, so you probably have it if your Linux is fairly recent. If not,
perhaps you should consider upgrading to a more recent install, if possible.

You will need a root prompt to do this. Go to wherever Mozilla is installed
(often /usr/local/mozilla) and find the file named unix.js. If you have trouble
finding it, try this command from the command prompt:

find / -name "unix.js"

This will search your entire system for the file. If it finds it, it will list
it with the whole path. If you happen to have more than one, it will find them
all. Make sure you use the right one in that case!

Open that file with a text editor, and find the line which says
pref("font.FreeType2.enable", true); Make sure it says "true" and not "false".
If it doesn't say true, change it to true. Under that line you should see a
line which says:

pref("font.directory.truetype.1","/some/path/name";

Or maybe it won't be there. In any case, you need to edit or create such an
entry which includes the location of the truetype font(s) you wish to use. For
example, suppose you decide to put your true-type fonts into a directory under
your home directory, /home/myname/mozillafonts. In that case you would create a
line in unix.js which reads:

pref("font.directory.truetype.1", "/home/myname/mozillafonts");

Another good way is to create a directory which is available to all users, and
point it there. You could also try pointing it to your main system-wide true-
type font directory, if you know where that is. You can also have more than one
directory. If you want to add another directory, just add a second line in your
unix.js file, but change the font.directory.truetype.1 to
font.directory.truetype.2 or .3 or whatever, however many you want.

Once you get this edited and saved, and have your truetype fonts in the
directory chosen, restart Mozilla and check your preferences menu to see if it
shows up in the fonts dialog. Assuming your Red Hat Linux is fairly new, you
should have no trouble. You can get more info on this at this page:

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/fonts/unix/enabling_truetype.html

This page is geared more towards people who do a lot on their Linux systems, and
so some of it might be a bit arcane to a beginner. But the info is there if you
can dig it out.

I have used this method with success for some time. I also have truetype
Shavian fonts working on my system for all (most?) applications, since I use
Mandrake Linux, which has a font setup menu in its control panel, which allows
you to import truetype fonts just by clicking a button. Fonts can be a problem
sometimes with Linux, but the situation is getting better, thankfully! I hope
this has been helpful.

Ethan




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Interestingly enough, the most common translations are Religious,
but our members are too ecelectic to go with just one Holy book.
A children's classic without dialect, would have more general
applicability.
Point. We do want to teach it to children.
Regards, Paul V.
--- In shavian@..., "Philip Newton" <philip.newton@g...>
wrote:
> On 2 Dec 2003 at 20:48, Star Raven wrote:
>
> > > > Start with laugh at the fat cat, and end with "And so it was
that
> > > Jesus
> > > > appeared before the Nephytes" or what have you.
> > >
> > > Jesus appearing to the Nephites? :) Don't see that referred to
often.
> >
> > Sorry, was thinking of my mormon friend I just found again.
Although,
> > it was normal for children in days of yore to learn to read the
bible
> > as their first book.
>
> And I seem to recall hearing that there's a literacy course
sponsored
> by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that uses the
Book
> of Mormon as its main text.
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
> --
> Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@g...>


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On 3 Dec 2003 at 19:56, paul vandenbrink wrote:

[Philip]
> I don't know how to get a physical letter to him. Do you have
> contact with him.

I read the mailing list :) (Perhaps not every day, but several times a
week.)

I've sent you contact details by private email.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>


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Well, being pagan, I have no religious text, and the jewish people
already have an alphabet fitted to their text. However I do see your
point and totally agree. I would suggest the Dr. Seuss line, but the
pictures are part of it, and we all know Dick and Jane suck for
teaching reading.

Perhaps mother goose?

--Star

=====
The Piscean Warrior:
Protector of the Innocent
Defender of the Weak
Wanderer of the Off

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On Wednesday, Dec 3, 2003, at 20:56 Europe/Paris, paul vandenbrink wrote:



Hi Hugh
I think your Shavian Forums at www.shavian.org are great.




?? ?? ???????? ???????????? ?????? ???????

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86

Hi Star

I think using Children's poetry (i.e. Bears & Squares by A.E.Milne) ,
or even simple non-religous inspirational poetry such as Robert
Frost's stuff would have a number of teaching benefits.
Also We need to create an approach, method, course of study for
teaching a Child Shavian.

I would really love to see a study on how long it takes a child
learning Shavian to become fully literate in English.
And then compare it against the work needed to become literate in the
T.O.

Regards, Paul V.


--- In shavian@..., Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...>
wrote:
> Well, being pagan, I have no religious text, and the jewish people
> already have an alphabet fitted to their text. However I do see your
> point and totally agree. I would suggest the Dr. Seuss line, but the
> pictures are part of it, and we all know Dick and Jane suck for
> teaching reading.
>
> Perhaps mother goose?
>
> --Star
>
> =====
> The Piscean Warrior:
> Protector of the Innocent
> Defender of the Weak
> Wanderer of the Off
>
> __________________________________
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