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Star Raven incurred the wrath of Bob on Jan 2, by saying

>
>--- paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@...> wrote:
>> Hi Philip D.
>> I prefer to use the ASTERISK "*" as a Namer Dot.
>> In lieu of anything better?
>> Regards, Paul V.
>>
>
>Paul, the problem I see with this is that in some applications, the
>asterisk is used also as a formatting aide, i.e. it makes normal print
>into bold print in some desktop publishing apps. I wish we did have an
>easy key to use, but I'm all for using q, with nothing as Q, if you
>catch my drift.
>

Note that he was not talking (I don't think) about what *key* to use,
rather, what Unicode *character* to use for the namer dot, regardless of
what key is pressed to get that character. Others have pointed out,
however, that a middle dot is already available in Unicode, which serves
the purpose just fine, even though it is not part of the Shavian block
and was put in Unicode for other purposes by someone who had probably
never heard of Shavian, if I understand correctly. Someone once told me
it was bad to write sentences that long, but I can't seem to help it.

--
Cheers,
Bob Schmertz




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01/02/04 12:52:49 PM, "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@...> wrote:

>Hab geschrieben:
>> To quote Philip Newton:
>
>Sorry Ethan, I meant you.
>
>Hugh B

You're forgiven! :)

Ethan






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Bob Schmertz skribis:
>

> Star Raven incurred the wrath of Bob on Jan 2, by saying
> >
> >--- paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@...> wrote:
> >> Hi Philip D.
> >> I prefer to use the ASTERISK "*" as a Namer Dot.
> >> In lieu of anything better?
> >> Regards, Paul V.
> >
> >Paul, the problem I see with this is that in some applications, the
> >asterisk is used also as a formatting aide, i.e. it makes normal print
> >into bold print in some desktop publishing apps. I wish we did have an
> >easy key to use, but I'm all for using q, with nothing as Q, if you
> >catch my drift.
>
> Note that he was not talking (I don't think) about what *key* to use,
> rather, what Unicode *character* to use for the namer dot, regardless of
> what key is pressed to get that character. Others have pointed out,
> however, that a middle dot is already available in Unicode, which serves
> the purpose just fine, even though it is not part of the Shavian block
> and was put in Unicode for other purposes by someone who had probably
> never heard of Shavian, if I understand correctly. Someone once told me
> it was bad to write sentences that long, but I can't seem to help it.


Exactly. I wanted to know what Unicode character we should use
as the namer dot. There are many special marks defined in Unicode.
I suspect there is more than one centered dot for various purposes.
I just wondered which one we'll adopt for Shavian.

--Ph. D.





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>
> Note that he was not talking (I don't think) about what *key* to use,
> rather, what Unicode *character* to use for the namer dot, regardless
> of
> what key is pressed to get that character. Others have pointed out,
> however, that a middle dot is already available in Unicode, which
> serves
> the purpose just fine, even though it is not part of the Shavian
> block
> and was put in Unicode for other purposes by someone who had probably
> never heard of Shavian, if I understand correctly. Someone once told
> me
> it was bad to write sentences that long, but I can't seem to help it.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Bob Schmertz
>

Oh! okay, silly me. Yes, I think that if there is a dot already,
perhaps it should be used instead of the asterisk. As for the long
sentance, I have one thing to say... Amature!

Queen of the Run-On sentances,
--Star

=====
Support bacteria. It's the only culture some people have.

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A while ago I had a collection of GIF files that someone (I think Steve
Bett) sent to me, with one little GIF file for each Shavian letter. I
seem to have lost those, while I have rediscovered an interest in
working out a way to display Shavian on a web page to those without
fonts (now that I know JavaScript and understand DOM a little bit, I've
got an idea of how to do this nicely).

Does anyone here have a collection of such "fonts"?

--
Cheers,
Bob Schmertz




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01/02/04 7:06:25 PM, "Ph. D." <phild@...> wrote:

>Exactly. I wanted to know what Unicode character we should use
>as the namer dot. There are many special marks defined in Unicode.
>I suspect there is more than one centered dot for various purposes.
>I just wondered which one we'll adopt for Shavian.
>
>--Ph. D.

No question about it - we follow what's on the page Hugh mentioned:
http://www.unicode.org/pending/shavian/shavian.html

Allow me to quote:
"The script consists of forty-eight uncased letters. Proper nouns are indicated
by preceding them by a dot written above the baseline of the text. U+00B7 MIDDLE
DOT is to be used as this "proper noun mark." The use of apostrophes is
optional, but punctuation is otherwise identical with that used by English
written with the Latin script."

Since I've been following the progress of Unicode Shavian, I created my fonts to
follow this convention, and therefore they contain that particular character,
but no other. If you use that character, you are pretty much guaranteed to have
it available in your fonts. If you use some other character, which other
character I'm not aware of, though I'm sure there are some similar or even
identical to the 00B7 MIDDLE DOT, you might not have it in the fonts used, and
instead would get something like a box or question mark, denoting a missing
character. (Taking a breath!)

Ethan






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I just noticed a new version of the ASCII Phonetic alphabet at
www.antimoon.com. It uses 2 periods in a row to indicate a Schwa
sound, and a single period before the "L" letter to indicate a
syllabic "L" in words like "girl" and "pearl".
Good idea that avoids wasting a whole letter, for what is
intrinsically a very small sound.
Any opinions on ASCII Alphabet?

Regards, Paul V.




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hF fOlks,

wel F'm fFnallI kYt up rIdiN Yl H mesiJiz hC. it tUk mI His loN bIkuz v H bAd weHD hC in VtY n H SPt tFm F hAv t Vz H intxnet. Az fR Az, mF kxent pOziSan on SyvWn, P hwut iz nM wiT mF SyvWn TiNkiN. F belIv fP H mOst pRt HAt SyvWn iz fOnetik, eksept hwen it kUmz t H kompQnd letxz. hwic F belIv R fOnImik.

n bF H wE wans F On a kompVtx F wil bI trAnzlitxEtD v bUks intM SyvWn. (fP eksAmpal sins F'm eldIes F wil trAnzlitxEtD H hOlI teksts v mF rIliJun -- n After HAt enI UHx bUk pIpal wynt tM sI in SyvWn.)

pI.es. in Pdx fP HAt tM hApan, wI nId pxmiSan frum publiSxz tM publisiz Ham.


best rIgRdz,

kRal

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On Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003, at 13:26 Europe/Paris, Star Raven wrote:

>
>> Here's my question. What software are you using for your email to
>> and from this
>> list?
>

> P.s. I got a new computer for yule, and am now currently running
> windows... Yay, progress.
>
>
Some people would not consider running Windows progress. :-)

I run Mail.app on Mac OS X. My vote is to generate Shavian at the
proper Unicode code points. On Mac OS X this is easily doable using
the keyboard layouts available from my website. Unfortunately it seems
there are many people that cannot read Unicode (UTF-8) mail messages.
Until that time there will be no proper universal solution. :-(

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86




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01/07/04 11:24:00 AM, Scott Harrison <scott@...> wrote:

>
>On Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003, at 13:26 Europe/Paris, Star Raven wrote:
>
>>
>>> Here's my question. What software are you using for your email to
>>> and from this
>>> list?
>>
>
>> P.s. I got a new computer for yule, and am now currently running
>> windows... Yay, progress.
>>
>>
> Some people would not consider running Windows progress. :-)
>
> I run Mail.app on Mac OS X. My vote is to generate Shavian at the
>proper Unicode code points. On Mac OS X this is easily doable using
>the keyboard layouts available from my website. Unfortunately it seems
>there are many people that cannot read Unicode (UTF-8) mail messages.
>Until that time there will be no proper universal solution. :-(
>
>--
>Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86

Scott, I've pretty much come to that conclusion myself. The only universal
solution available is Unicode 4. If your software can handle Unicode 4, you can
read and send Shavian email, in plain text or html, as long as you have the
right font (get that here - http://www.30below.com/~ethanl/fonts.html) and
keyboard layout. I don't know yet how to do that for MS Windows ME or older -
and I don't have Win2k or XP to experiment with the keyboard app Microsoft
supplies.

I found an editor which handles Shavian Unicode no problem under Win98. It's
called BabelPad, and you can get it from:
http://uk.geocities.com/BabelStone1357/Software/BabelPad.html

You need to make sure you have Uniscribe installed, information is at the site.
It seems to be a pretty decent text editor, and has capabilities similar to
Yudit, which I use under Linux. If you look around enough, you should be able
to come up with software for just about any system, which will support Unicode
Shavian. Windows XP has pretty decent support for plane 1 characters, and so if
you're using that OS, you should be well equipped. You will need to have the
latest (or fairly recent) version of your favorite browser, assuming you're
using MS Internet Explorer or Opera or one of the browsers based on Gecko, such
as Mozilla or Netscape.

Now I just need to have an keyboard layout of some kind for Win98, and I can
send it from this computer. I can already do it from my Linux box.

Ethan






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