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Hi Bob
I suppose I could look into it.
There are 3 issues or problems, none of which are insurmountable.

1. The copyright issue, of which I spoke before.
Androcles itself is fine, but the explanatory material is
probably
still under copyright to the Public Trustee or Penguin.
2. Putting the material into a Machine readable format.
3. The cost to the online publishing company of keeping a copy of
Book available. I imagine if they would keep it Gratis,
if they get requests for a copy.
4. Advertising would resolve the third issue.

Regards, Paul V.
______________attached___________________________

--- In shavian@..., RSRICHMOND@a... wrote:
> Hi Paul Vandenbrink!
>
> Glad you got the book and were pleased with it.
>
> Surely it would be possible for our group to republish it - wonder
if we
> could do it with one of those online publishing operations that
manufacture books
> on demand.
>
> Bob Richmond




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Hi folks,

I just posted a poem I at first wrote in T.O. then I transliterated it into Shavian at the Ikonboard shavian forum under the title The Blue Abyss: An Original Poem by Carl Easton.

Take a look and enjoy!

best of regards,

Carl+

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Hi Everyone

It looks like the Russian's are catching up with us in simplified
spelling. The Cyrillic Alphabet is used by more than 400 million
people, and is in the process of being further re-vitalized as we
speak.
The Cyrillic Alphabet has 33 letters and represents 28 sounds
directly. It is used by most by most Slavic Languages (Russian,
Ukrranian, Serbian, Macedonian, Bulgarian) except Polish and by a
number of countries that used to be under the influence of the former
U.S.S.R. (Romania).

Still in the abscense of an authoritarian government, you will never
get any consistency. I think the best bet is to provide an alternate
or auxilliary Alphabet like Shavian, to provide an all-encompassing
solution.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Surprizing little interest about poetry, by Shavian enthusiasts.
Poetry is one of the best ways to learn a language. Good Poetry is a
fun way to learn. I like the Hunting of the Snark, by Lewis Carrol.
P.P.S Unable to reply to Carl's poem message due to technical glitch.
*****************attached***************************
Republishing "Shaw's Androcles and the Lion"

--- In shavian@..., "paul vandenbrink"
<pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
>> There are 3 issues or problems, none of which are insurmountable.
>
> 1. The copyright issue, of which I spoke before.
> Androcles itself is fine, but the explanatory material is
> probably
> still under copyright to the Public Trustee or Penguin.
> 2. Putting the material into a Machine readable format.
> 3. The cost to the online publishing company of keeping a copy of
> Book available. I imagine if they would keep it Gratis,
> if they get enough requests for a copy.
> 4. Advertising would probably resolve the third issue.
>
> Regards, Paul V.




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paul vandenbrink skribis:
>
> It looks like the Russian's are catching up with us in simplified
> spelling. The Cyrillic Alphabet is used by more than 400 million
> people, and is in the process of being further re-vitalized as we
> speak.
> The Cyrillic Alphabet has 33 letters and represents 28 sounds
> directly. It is used by most by most Slavic Languages (Russian,
> Ukrranian, Serbian, Macedonian, Bulgarian) except Polish and by a
> number of countries that used to be under the influence of the former
> U.S.S.R. (Romania).

I believe Romanian is written in Latin script.

Czech, Slovak, Slovenian, and Croatian are Slavic languages
written in Latin script. There are also several minor Slavic
languages written in Latin script.

Many languages using Cyrillic script have adopted extra
letters not used in Russian (and discarding others). Some
of these extra letters come from Latin script, but others
are modifications of other Cyrillic letters. Serbian for example
has six additional letters.

--Ph. D.





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On 26 Apr 2004 at 22:11, Ph. D. wrote:

> paul vandenbrink skribis:
> >
> > The Cyrillic Alphabet has 33 letters and represents 28 sounds
> > directly. It is used by most by most Slavic Languages (Russian,
> > Ukrranian, Serbian, Macedonian, Bulgarian) except Polish and by
> > a number of countries that used to be under the influence of the
> > former U.S.S.R. (Romania).
>
> I believe Romanian is written in Latin script.

Maybe he was thinking of Moldavian/Moldovan, which is (AIUI)
essentially the same language as Romanian, but was written in the
Cyrillic alphabet while the Moldavian SSR was part of the USSR.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language .

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>



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H ·rEvan


bF ·edgD ·Alan ·pO


wuns apon a midnFt drCI, wFl F pondDd wIk n wCI,
OvD menI a kwEnt n kVrIas volVm v fPgotn lP,
wFl F nodad, nClI nApiN, sudanlI HX kEm a tApiN,
Az v sum wun JentlI rApiN, rApiN At mF cEmbD dP.
“tiz sum vizitD,” F mutDd, “tApiN At mF cEmbD dP —
OnlI His, n nuTiN mP.”

y, distiNtlI F rImembD it wuz in H blIk ·dIsembD,
n Ic seprat dFiN embD rYt its gOst apon H flP.
IgDlI F wiSt H mRO; — vEnlI F hAd sYt t bRO
frum mF bUks sxsIs v sRO — sRO fP H lost ·lanP —
fP H rX n rEdWnt mEdan hMm H EnJalz nEmd ·lanP —
nEmlas hC fP evDmP.

n H silkan sAd unsxtan rusliN v Ic pxpl kxtan
Trild mI — fild mI wiT fAntAstik tXDz nevD felt bIfP;
sO HAt nQ, t stil H bItiN v mF hRt, F stUd rIpItiN
“tiz sum vizitD intrItiN entrans At mF cEmbD dP —
sum lEt vizitD intrItiN entrans At mF cEmbD dP;
His it iz, n nuTiN mP.”

prezantlI mF sOl grM stroNgD; hezitEtiN Hen nO loNgD,
“sx,” sed F, “P mAdam, trMlI jP fPgivnas F implP;
but H fAkt iz F wuz nApiN, n sO JentlI V kEm rApiN,
n sO fEntlI V kEm tApiN, tApiN At mF cEmbD dP,
HAt F skXs wuz SMD F hxd V” — hC F Opand wFd H dP; —
dRknas HX, n nuTiN mP.

dIp intM HAt dRknas pCiN, loN F stUd HX, wundriN, fCiN
dQtiN, drImiN drImz nO mPtl evD dXd t drIm bIfP;
but H sFlans wuz unbrOkan, n H stilnas gEv nO tOkan,
n H OnlI wxd HX spOkan wuz H wispDd wxd, “·lanP?”
His F wispDd, n an ekO mxmDd bAk H wxd, “·lanP!”
mClI Hiz, n nuTiN mP.

bAk intM H cEmbD txniN, Yl mF sOl wiTin mI bxniN,
sMn agen F hxd a tApiN sumwut lQdD HAn bIfP.
“SxnI,” sed F, “SxlI HAt iz sumTiN At mF windO lAtis;
let mI sI, Hen, wut HXAt iz, n His mistDI eksplP —
let mF hRt bI stil a mOmant n His mistDI eksplP; —
“tiz H wind n nuTiN mP!”

Opan hC F fluN H SutD, wen wiT menI a flxt n flutD,
in TX stept a stEtlI ·rEvan v H sEntlI dEz v jP;
not H lIst ObIsans mEd hI; not an instant stopt P stEd hI;
but, wiT mIn v lPd P lEdI, pxct abuv mF cEmbD dP —
pxct, n sAt, n nuTiN mP.

Hen His ebanI bxd bIgFliN mF sAd fAnsI intM smFliN,
bF H grEv n stxn dekPam v H kQntanans it wP,
“HO HF krest bI SPn n SEvan, HQ,” F sed, “Rt SMD nO krEvan,
gAstlI grim n EnSant rEvan wyndDiN frum H ·nFtlI SP —
tel mI wut HF lPdlI nEm iz on H ·nFts ·plMtOnWn SP!”
kwOT H rEvan, “·nevDmP.”

muc F mRvald His ungEnlI fQl t hC diskPs sO plEnlI,
HO its AnsD litl mIniN — litl relavansI bP;
fP wI kAnot help agrIiN HAt nO liviN hVman bIiN
evD jet wuz blest wiT sIiN bxd abuv hiz cEmbD dP —
bxd P bIst umon H skulpcxd bust abuv hiz cEmbD dP,
wiT suc nEm Az “·nevDmP.”

but H ·rEvan, sitiN lOnlI on H plAsid bust, spOk OnlI
HAt wun wxd, Az if hiz sOl in HAt wun wxd hI did QtpP.
nuTiN fRHD Hen hI utDd — not a feHD Hen hI flutDd —
til F skXslI mP HAn mutDd “uHD frendz hAv flOn bIfP —
on H mRO hI wil lIv mI, Az mF hOps hAv flOn bIfP.”
Hen H bxd sed “nevDmP.”

stRtld At H stilnas brOkan bF rIplF sO AptlI spOkan,
“dQtlas,” sed F, “wut it utDz iz its OnlI stok n stP,
kYt frum sum unhApI mAstD hMm unmxsifl ·dizAstD
folOd fAst n folOd fAstD til hiz soNz wun bxdan bP —
til H dxJaz v hiz ·hOp HAt melankolI bxdan bP
v “nevD — nevDmP.”

but H rEvan stil bIgFliN Yl mF sAd sOl intM smFliN,
strEt F wIld a kUSand sIt in frunt v bxd, n bust, n dP;
Ten apon H velvat siNkiN, F bItUk mFself t liNkiN
fAnsI untM fAnsI, TiNkiN wut His ominas bxd v jP —
wut His grim, ungEnlI, gAstlI, gYnt n ominas bxd v jP
ment in krOkiN “nevDmP.”

His F sAt eNgEJd in gesiN, but nO silabl ekspresiN
t H fQl hMz fFrI Fz nQ bxnd intM mF bMzamz kP;
His n mP F sAt divFniN, wiT mF hed At Iz rIklFniN
on H kUSanz velvat lFniN HAt H lAmplFt glOtad P,
but hMz velvat vFalat lFniN wiT H lAmplFt grOtiN P,
SI SAl pres, y, nevDmP!

Hen, mITYt, H X grM densD, pxfVmd frum an unsIn sensD
swuN bF ·EnJlz hMz fEnt fUt-fYlz tiNkld on H tuftad flP.
“rec,” F krFd, “HF ·gof hAT lent HI — bF HIz EnJlz hI hAT sent HI
respat — respat n napenTI frum HF memrIz v ·lanP;
kwyf, O kwyf His kFnd napenTI n fPget His lost ·lanP!”
kwOT H ·rEvan, “nevDmP.”

“profat!” sed F, “TeN v Ivl! — profat stil, if bxd P devl!
weHD ·temptD sent, P weHD tempast tost HI hC aSP,
desalat jet Yl undYntad, on His dezDt lAnd encAntad* —
on His hOm bF ·hPD hYntad — tel mI trMlI, F implP —
iz HX bYlm in ·gilIad? — tel mI — tel mI, F implP!”
kwOT H ·rEvan, “nevDmP.”

“profat!” sed F, “TeN v Ivl — profat stil, if bxd P devl!
bF HAt ·hevan HAt bendz abuv us — bF HAt ·god wI bOT adP —
tel His sOl wiT sRO lEdan if, wiTin H distant ·Edan,
it SAl klAsp a sEntad mEdan hMm H EnJlz nEm ·lanP —
klAsp a rX n rEdWnt mEdan hMm H EnJlz nEm ·lanP.”
kwOT H ·rEvan, “nevDmP.”

“bI HAt wxd QD sFn v pRtiN, bxd P fInd!” F SrIkt, upstRtiN —
“get HI bAk intM H tempast n H ·nFts ·plMtOnWn SP!
lIv nO blAk plMm Az a tOkan v HAt lF HF sOl hAT spOkan!
lIv mF lOnlInas unbrOkan! — kwit H bust abuv mF dP!
tEk HF bIk frum Qt mF hRt, n tEk HF fPm frum of mF dP!”
kwOT H ·rEvan, “nevDmP.”

n H ·rEvan, nevD flitiN, stil iz sitiN, stil iz sitiN
on H pAlid bust v ·pAlas Just abuv mF cEmbD dP;
n hiz Fz hAv Yl H sImiN v a dImanz HAt iz drImiN,
n H lAmp-lFt P him strImiN TrOz hiz SAdO on H flP;
n mF sOl frum Qt HAt SAdO HAt lFz flOtiN on H flP
SAl bI liftad — nevDmP!


________________________________


* SUd it bI “encYntad” insted? but nObudI in ·amXika sez “encYntad!”

There are a number of languages in and around USSR where the
Cyrillic Alphabet is fighting it out with the Roman Alphabet.
Neither have an overall advantage, although Cyrillic does a little
more suited to pure Slavic Languages.
Besides Romanian/Moldovian, that Phil aluded to, there is
Serbian/Croatian, more or less the same language, but written in a
different Alphabet, just to confuse the issue. As was pointed out 6
additional letters are added to the Cyrillic for Serbian and Roman
Alphabet is expanded to 30 for Croatian.
They are a good candidates for there own Shaw Alphabet to handle the
mainstream Slavic Languages.

Regards, Paul V.

--- In shavian@..., "Philip Newton" <philip.newton@g...>
wrote:
> On 26 Apr 2004 at 22:11, Ph. D. wrote:
>
> > paul vandenbrink skribis:
> > >
> > > The Cyrillic Alphabet has 33 letters and represents 28 sounds
> > > directly. It is used by most by most Slavic Languages (Russian,
> > > Ukrranian, Serbian, Macedonian, Bulgarian) except Polish and by
> > > a number of countries that used to be under the influence of
the
> > > former U.S.S.R. (Romania).
> >
> > I believe Romanian is written in Latin script.
>
> Maybe he was thinking of Moldavian/Moldovan, which is (AIUI)
> essentially the same language as Romanian, but was written in the
> Cyrillic alphabet while the Moldavian SSR was part of the USSR.
> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language .
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
> --
> Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@g...>



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paul vandenbrink skribis:
>
> There are a number of languages in and around USSR where the
> Cyrillic Alphabet is fighting it out with the Roman Alphabet.
> Neither have an overall advantage, although Cyrillic does a little
> more suited to pure Slavic Languages.
> Besides Romanian/Moldovian, that Phil aluded to, there is
> Serbian/Croatian, more or less the same language, but written in a
> different Alphabet, just to confuse the issue. As was pointed out 6
> additional letters are added to the Cyrillic for Serbian and Roman
> Alphabet is expanded to 30 for Croatian.
> They are a good candidates for there own Shaw Alphabet to handle the
> mainstream Slavic Languages.


Serbian and Croatian are indeed the same language, more or
less, but the Serbs consider themselves Orthodox and always
write their language in Cyrillic. Croats consider themselves
Roman Catholic and always write their language in Latin script.
In both cases, it's a matter of nationalism.

My girlfriend's family is from Croatia. They came here when she
was three years old. Her father told me that when he took some
classes in Belgrade (Serbia), his teachers would not accept his
work in Latin script, only Cyrillic. (Most Serbs and Croats grow
up learning to read text in either alphabet.)

Croatian uses the Latin alphabet with an additional letter, a D with
a bar through it. It also uses C with an acute; and C, S, and Z each
with a hachek (an upside-down circumflex). As previously mentioned,
Serbian adds six characters to Cyrillic (and doesn't use several
others).

I don't know about the other Slavic languages, but Serbian and
Croatian are already pretty close to being phonemically spelled,
so I don't think they need another alphabet. (One of their popular
authors of a couple hundred years ago always preached "spell
as you speak and speak as you spell.")

--Ph. D.




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Ph. D. wrote:
>
> I don't know about the other Slavic languages, but Serbian and
> Croatian are already pretty close to being phonemically spelled,
> so I don't think they need another alphabet. (One of their popular
> authors of a couple hundred years ago always preached "spell
> as you speak and speak as you spell.")
>
> --Ph. D.

I believe Russian could use some spelling reform. When a word begins
with (transliterated) "gad", but is pronounced "had", or ends in "go"
but is pronounced "vo", or ends with "chev" but is pronounced "choff",
something needs to change! Also, "e" can be either "e" or "ye"
depending on context, apparently. Those are just a few abnormalities
I'm aware of, but there are probably many more. I don't speak Russian.

--
·???????? - Ethan


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On Apr 28, 2004, at 00:35, Ethan wrote:



Ph. D. wrote:



I don't know about the other Slavic languages, but Serbian and
Croatian are already pretty close to being phonemically spelled,
so I don't think they need another alphabet. (One of their popular
authors of a couple hundred years ago always preached "spell
as you speak and speak as you spell.")

--Ph. D.



I believe Russian could use some spelling reform. When a word begins
with (transliterated) "gad", but is pronounced "had", or ends in "go"
but is pronounced "vo", or ends with "chev" but is pronounced "choff",
something needs to change! Also, "e" can be either "e" or "ye"
depending on context, apparently. Those are just a few abnormalities
I'm aware of, but there are probably many more. I don't speak Russian.

--
·???????? - Ethan



Yes, Russian can use some spelling reform. The word for milk has three "o" letters in it. Each one of them is pronounced differently -- "a", schwa and "o". However, Shavian probably will not be a good use for Russian since there are some sounds in Russian that are not present in English (Shavian or otherwise). I think you would have an easier time with something like Bulgarian using Shavian instead.

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86