Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

Scott

I think we need to go for the private list option as this spamming, although
hardly a barrage at present, is going to drive people nuts and probably away
from the list. I'm going to try to export all the Shavian messages that I've
got saved in my inbox into a .tar file for you... but Outlook Express
doesn't make it easy...

Hugh B


----- Original Message -----
From: "ltvslsjh198" <ltvslsjh198@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 4:40 PM
Subject: [shavian] Important News for shavian Members


> I was really far into debt.
> Like Most I was in Financial dispair.
> I could not seem to get ahead no matter how hard I tried.
> Untill I found this place.
> http://wehelp.place.cc
> If you are in debt they can help you out.
> Check them out today I did.
> This email was sent because you joined our group.
> If you do not wish to recieve any emails, unsubscribe.
> by sending a mail here shavian-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



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we've had, what, two in as many days... I'm willing to go for the
private option now...

--Star

--- Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...> wrote:
> Scott
>
> I think we need to go for the private list option as this spamming,
> although
> hardly a barrage at present, is going to drive people nuts and
> probably away
> from the list. I'm going to try to export all the Shavian messages
> that I've
> got saved in my inbox into a .tar file for you... but Outlook Express
> doesn't make it easy...
>
> Hugh B
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ltvslsjh198" <ltvslsjh198@...>
> To: <shavian@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 4:40 PM
> Subject: [shavian] Important News for shavian Members
>
>
> > I was really far into debt.
> > Like Most I was in Financial dispair.
> > I could not seem to get ahead no matter how hard I tried.
> > Untill I found this place.
> > http://wehelp.place.cc
> > If you are in debt they can help you out.
> > Check them out today I did.
> > This email was sent because you joined our group.
> > If you do not wish to recieve any emails, unsubscribe.
> > by sending a mail here shavian-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>


=====
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

-Kierkegaard




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Star I can never tell if you're being serious or not ;-P

It's not the volume of postings that's the problem, obviously (although it's
an increase on before when we had NO spam whatsoever)... but these spams
tell the recipient to send a mail to shavian-unsubscribe@... to
stop the messages - this isn't on and could lead to many 'lurkers' simply
unsubscribing altogether to get away from the rubbish.

Hugh B


----- Original Message -----
From: "Star Raven" <celestraof12worlds@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Important News for shavian Members


> we've had, what, two in as many days... I'm willing to go for the
> private option now...
>
> --Star
>
> --- Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...> wrote:
> > Scott
> >
> > I think we need to go for the private list option as this spamming,
> > although
> > hardly a barrage at present, is going to drive people nuts and
> > probably away
> > from the list. I'm going to try to export all the Shavian messages
> > that I've
> > got saved in my inbox into a .tar file for you... but Outlook Express
> > doesn't make it easy...
> >
> > Hugh B
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "ltvslsjh198" <ltvslsjh198@...>
> > To: <shavian@...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 4:40 PM
> > Subject: [shavian] Important News for shavian Members
> >
> >
> > > I was really far into debt.
> > > Like Most I was in Financial dispair.
> > > I could not seem to get ahead no matter how hard I tried.
> > > Untill I found this place.
> > > http://wehelp.place.cc
> > > If you are in debt they can help you out.
> > > Check them out today I did.
> > > This email was sent because you joined our group.
> > > If you do not wish to recieve any emails, unsubscribe.
> > > by sending a mail here shavian-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of
thought which they seldom use."
>
> -Kierkegaard
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://messenger.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



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for once, hugh, I actually was being serious. We have no way to fight
spam on this list, and there has been a signifigant increase since I've
been a member (what three years or so?) and it's not fair that there's
no help offered from Yaheck. The big part of what annoys me is exactly
that. They are spamming and blaming it on membership to the group.

As one of common voices in this forum, I say, I support the move.
--Star

--- Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...> wrote:
> Star I can never tell if you're being serious or not ;-P
>
> It's not the volume of postings that's the problem, obviously
> (although it's
> an increase on before when we had NO spam whatsoever)... but these
> spams
> tell the recipient to send a mail to
> shavian-unsubscribe@... to
> stop the messages - this isn't on and could lead to many 'lurkers'
> simply
> unsubscribing altogether to get away from the rubbish.
>
> Hugh B
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Star Raven" <celestraof12worlds@...>
> To: <shavian@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 5:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [shavian] Important News for shavian Members
>
>
> > we've had, what, two in as many days... I'm willing to go for the
> > private option now...
> >
> > --Star
> >
> > --- Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...> wrote:
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > I think we need to go for the private list option as this
> spamming,
> > > although
> > > hardly a barrage at present, is going to drive people nuts and
> > > probably away
> > > from the list. I'm going to try to export all the Shavian
> messages
> > > that I've
> > > got saved in my inbox into a .tar file for you... but Outlook
> Express
> > > doesn't make it easy...
> > >
> > > Hugh B
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "ltvslsjh198" <ltvslsjh198@...>
> > > To: <shavian@...>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 4:40 PM
> > > Subject: [shavian] Important News for shavian Members
> > >
> > >
> > > > I was really far into debt.
> > > > Like Most I was in Financial dispair.
> > > > I could not seem to get ahead no matter how hard I tried.
> > > > Untill I found this place.
> > > > http://wehelp.place.cc
> > > > If you are in debt they can help you out.
> > > > Check them out today I did.
> > > > This email was sent because you joined our group.
> > > > If you do not wish to recieve any emails, unsubscribe.
> > > > by sending a mail here shavian-unsubscribe@...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom
> of
> thought which they seldom use."
> >
> > -Kierkegaard
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> > http://messenger.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>


=====
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

-Kierkegaard




__________________________________
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Hi Scott

First, I don't want to add letters at this point. I am trying to
make the Shavian Alphabet more accessable, by giving the letters
names that are more memorable. If you want, you can call them
Nicknames, Mnemonic names or whatever.

As for the default order as it is presented in the Unicode standard.
That ordering seems to be tied to the Key codes and is hardly
memorable.
Does anyone have it written up in cleartext on a site somewhere
where I could take a look at it.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. I have produced some Shaw Samples over on Hugh's Ikonboard, but
I am unwilling to generate all of " Androcles and the Lion " over
there by myself. For one thing, I need someone to proof.

_______________attached_______________________________________


--- In shavian@..., Scott Harrison <scott@m...> wrote:
> Hi Paul
>
> I would suggest we do two things:
>
> (1) refrain from naming letters other than the way they are
named in
> the Unicode standard
> (2) refrain from adding letters to the alphabet
>
> The ordering of letters in the alphabet may be an
interesting project,
> but we have a default order as it is presented in the Unicode
standard.
> Therefore, we really need not work on that either.
>
> Therefore, I suggest we do something else, like work on
reprinting
> Androcles and the Lion, publishing more texts, etc.
>
> --Scott
>
> On Jun 8, 2004, at 13:03, paul vandenbrink wrote:
>
> > Hi Everybody
> > Since the lethargy of the summer has arrived, and there are no
other
> > pressing issues, I want to throw open a question to the group.




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Any program you write would have to use a dictionary or a list of
exceptions, at the very least.

I do have a set of rules that I use to make make Shavian spelling
consistent with Standard American pronunciation.

I guess it all depends if you want to use the Androcles Standard or
something more uptodate.


Regards, Paul V.

P.S. It is probably better to use rules plus an exception list, to
allow your program to work however haphazardly on unlisted words.
Might want to run everything throug a spell-checker first.

--- In shavian@..., "Philip Newton" <philip.newton@g...>
wrote:
> On 8 Jun 2004 at 22:05, shavianstar wrote:
>
> > Hey Everyone! How would you like a computer program to convert
> > roman text to Shavian?
>
> I think Andy Callaway already provided one, but the more the
merrier :)
>
> > Also, I need to know any serious changes to spelling that differ
> > from DeMeyere's standard. Although I have been using Shavian on
and
> > off for the past three years, I have just joined this group.
I'm
> > finding the spelling unpleasently subjective, and I find that
the
> > way that people normally have spelled things greatly affects how
> > they spell in Shavian. Do we have set standards on some
spellings?
>
> This has been one of the points of contention recently on this
group,
> so you've touched a sore point. I don't think we have consensus on
> spelling.
>
> I personally am on the side of Hugh, which is to use the spelling
of
> the American Heritage Dictionary (not AHD for Learners) as
exemplified
> e.g. on dictionary.com, whose pronunciation key is fairly close to
the
> speech of _Androcles_ and makes more distinctions than General
American
> does.
>
> Any program you write would have to use a dictionary, I imagine,
since
> I doubt rule-based spelling would get you very far. In which case
> people who disagree with your spelling could simply replace or
modify
> the spelling dictionary your program uses.
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
> --
> Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@g...>



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Hugh Birkenhead wrote:
> Star I can never tell if you're being serious or not ;-P
>
> It's not the volume of postings that's the problem, obviously (although it's
> an increase on before when we had NO spam whatsoever)... but these spams
> tell the recipient to send a mail to shavian-unsubscribe@... to
> stop the messages - this isn't on and could lead to many 'lurkers' simply
> unsubscribing altogether to get away from the rubbish.
>
> Hugh B

Hugh, I think you have a valid point there. If you have an alternative
mail list server which is as effective as what we are using, then it
might be the best thing to switch over to it, after posting messages on
here to let people know what happened and where to go, and moving all
the material here over to the other site. If Yahoo doesn't care about
helping the people using their services, then they don't need people
using them. Let the spammers have Yahoo. Like much of Usenet, Yahoo
will just end up being a place where spammers spam each other.

--
·???????? - Ethan
My name in Shavian and Latin text


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On 9 Jun 2004 at 19:39, paul vandenbrink wrote:

> As for the default order as it is presented in the Unicode standard.
> That ordering seems to be tied to the Key codes and is hardly
> memorable.

It's the order used in the card that comes with _Androcles_: Talls,
Deeps, then Shorts. It's the "peep-tot-kick" order.

> Does anyone have it written up in cleartext on a site somewhere
> where I could take a look at it.

Official PDF here: http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U10450.pdf

HTML page from the proposal, showing the order but not the final code
points here: http://www.unicode.org/pending/shavian/shavian.html

Old CSUR entry, apparently using the same order:
http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/shavian.html

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>



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Hi Philip

Thanks for the URL. The order is a lot clearer to me now. It has a
lot of internal consistency and should work fine.
It doesn't resemble ordinary alphabetic order, but with a little
memorization, I guess you could use it to index a Dictionary.

Regards, Paul V.

--- In shavian@..., "Philip Newton" <philip.newton@g...>
wrote:
> On 9 Jun 2004 at 19:39, paul vandenbrink wrote:
>
> > As for the default order as it is presented in the Unicode
standard.
> > That ordering seems to be tied to the Key codes and is hardly
> > memorable.
>
> It's the order used in the card that comes with _Androcles_: Talls,
> Deeps, then Shorts. It's the "peep-tot-kick" order.
>
> > Does anyone have it written up in cleartext on a site somewhere
> > where I could take a look at it.
>
> Official PDF here: http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U10450.pdf
>
> HTML page from the proposal, showing the order but not the final
code
> points here: http://www.unicode.org/pending/shavian/shavian.html
>
> Old CSUR entry, apparently using the same order:
> http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/shavian.html
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
> --
> Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@g...>



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Hi Everybody

I just noticed a new site where it allows you to use an interactive
editor/typewriter to type messages in the International Phonetic
Alphabet. I.P.A. is one of the standard pronouncing Alphabets used by
a lot of English dictionaries to give the pronunciation of an English
word. It uses a Unicode font and works in most Internet browsers.

I tried it out after I downloaded the font, and put the Unicode font
into the font folder. The web page prompts you to do this. Very easy
to get started.
The IPA Editor worked great.

It would be nice to have something like this set up for Shavian.
Then you wouldn't have to learn the Keyboard mappings just to write a
few words.

Check it out. Especially, if you have some familiarity with IPA. The
majority of us, I expect.
The site is
at ipa.typeit.org
Please note there is no leading www.



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