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From: Paul Vandenbrink
Date: 2004-07-15 06:16:02 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Hung - Another Anomaly
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Sorry Star
Haven't had any new ideas lately. But I am sure we will resurrect one of
your dead horses soon.
Regards and adieu for now., Paul V.
At 08:28 AM 7/14/04, you wrote:
> > I think it is pretty consistent. As you pointed out above, Hung and
> > Haha are special cases, in that they don't quite follow the rules of
> > all
> > other similar sounds. Maybe that is why they are reversed from the
> > other letters - Hung tall, Haha deep - so as to draw attention to
> > their
> > special status, perhaps? Whatever the reason, I think it works quite
> > well.
>
>You know, Ethan, I hadn't considered that. One more thing to add to the
>FAQ, I suppose, as I think it's a good point. Haha and hung do tend to
>give us trouble, amongst other things.
>
>Hey, isn't it time for the up vs. ado discussion?
>Just Kidding!
>
>Love ya!
>--Star
>
>=====
>Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
>--Lorne's Mom (from Angel)
>
>
>
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From: Star Raven
Date: 2004-07-21 13:55:21 #
Subject: [shavian] God, NASA, and didn't
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God, Death, Fate, War...
The list goes on of personifications that we should capitolise, not to
mention the TO trad of capitolising pronoun refs to God. Question:
should we carry this over to shavian and use a namer dot in front of
His, He, ect.?
Also, what of abreviations? NASA in shavian would be N-AIR-S-(short)A,
and I shudder to think about N-(schwa)-F-T-(schwa) aka NAFTA or others
that don't sound as good when the first shavian letter is used. Of
course, you know that the us gov't tends to make up the acronyms first,
but already established acronyms might cause a problem.
One more! Contractions and possesives cause problems as well. Do we
want to use the apostrophy to set off letters in contractions? Since
the difference in possessives is not heard when spoken, but understood,
do we drop it in this instance?
Adding to the FAQ,
--Star
=====
Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
--Lorne's Mom (from Angel)
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From: Newton, Philip
Date: 2004-07-21 13:59:04 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] God, NASA, and didn't
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Star Raven wrote:
> One more! Contractions and possesives cause problems as well.
> Do we want to use the apostrophy to set off letters in
> contractions? Since the difference in possessives is not heard
> when spoken, but understood, do we drop it in this instance?
And what about "o'clock", which probably isn't even felt to be a contraction
any more by contemporary speakers? Or fo'c'sle?
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
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From: Scott Harrison
Date: 2004-07-21 15:15:19 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] God, NASA, and didn't
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On Jul 21, 2004, at 08:54, Star Raven wrote:
> God, Death, Fate, War...
>
> The list goes on of personifications that we should capitolise, not to
> mention the TO trad of capitolising pronoun refs to God. Question:
> should we carry this over to shavian and use a namer dot in front of
> His, He, ect.?
>
> Also, what of abreviations? NASA in shavian would be N-AIR-S-(short)A,
> and I shudder to think about N-(schwa)-F-T-(schwa) aka NAFTA or others
> that don't sound as good when the first shavian letter is used. Of
> course, you know that the us gov't tends to make up the acronyms first,
> but already established acronyms might cause a problem.
>
> One more! Contractions and possesives cause problems as well. Do we
> want to use the apostrophy to set off letters in contractions? Since
> the difference in possessives is not heard when spoken, but understood,
> do we drop it in this instance?
>
>
Yes, God should probably have the namer dot. Abbreviations should be
remade in their Shavian form (using the Shavian versions of the words
to make the abbreviations), and contractions should be spelled with
Shavian pronunciation but without the apostrophes.
--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86
From: Star Raven
Date: 2004-07-21 18:52:41 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] God, NASA, and didn't
Toggle Shavian
--- "Newton, Philip" <Philip.Newton@...> wrote:
> And what about "o'clock", which probably isn't even felt to be a
> contraction
> any more by contemporary speakers? Or fo'c'sle?
>
My nationality is showing... or what?
--Star
=====
Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
--Lorne's Mom (from Angel)
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From: Star Raven
Date: 2004-07-21 19:01:45 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] God, NASA, and didn't
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Still doesn't answer the His He (Her?) question.
--Star
--- Scott Harrison <scott@...> wrote:
> Yes, God should probably have the namer dot. Abbreviations should
> be
> remade in their Shavian form (using the Shavian versions of the words
>
> to make the abbreviations), and contractions should be spelled with
> Shavian pronunciation but without the apostrophes.
>
> --
> Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86
>
=====
Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
--Lorne's Mom (from Angel)
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From: Philip Newton
Date: 2004-07-21 20:09:37 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] God, NASA, and didn't
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:48:12 -0700 (PDT), Star Raven
<celestraof12worlds@...> wrote:
> --- "Newton, Philip" <Philip.Newton@...> wrote:
> > And what about "o'clock" [...]? Or fo'c'sle?
>
> My nationality is showing... or what?
Forecastle. Part of a ship. Often pronounced, and sometimes written,
fo'c'sle (roughly, "foxle").
Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
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From: Hugh Birkenhead
Date: 2004-07-21 20:47:57 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] God, NASA, and didn't
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Star Raven" <celestraof12worlds@... <mailto:celestraof12worlds@...> >
> God, Death, Fate, War...
Ggod, GdeT, GfEt, GwP. There's no reason why you shouldn't use the namer dot for any word where you would deliberately use a capital letter for reasons of importance (like with the above words).
> The list goes on of personifications that we should capitolise, not to
> mention the TO trad of capitolising pronoun refs to God. Question:
> should we carry this over to shavian and use a namer dot in front of
> His, He, ect.?
If you are religious and you feel it necessary, sure. I personally don't capitalise 'god', or personal pronouns referring to him, so I would write god, hiz, hI, etc. Others could write Ggod, Ghiz, GhI if so they desired.
> Also, what of abreviations? NASA in shavian would be N-AIR-S-(short)A,
> and I shudder to think about N-(schwa)-F-T-(schwa) aka NAFTA or others
> that don't sound as good when the first shavian letter is used. Of
> course, you know that the us gov't tends to make up the acronyms first,
> but already established acronyms might cause a problem.
I suppose if the acronym is more commonly remembered than the individual words it represents, it's probably not wise to try to 're-pronounce' it in Shavian. In the media, you hear a lot about 'NASA' (pronounced nAsa) but not so much about 'the National Aeronautics and Space Administration', so maybe referring to it as GnAsa, rather than GnXsA, would be a better idea in most cases.
> One more! Contractions and possesives cause problems as well. Do we
> want to use the apostrophy to set off letters in contractions? Since
> the difference in possessives is not heard when spoken, but understood,
> do we drop it in this instance?
I think Androcles had something to say on this matter. Can't remember which part mentioned it though. If you have a copy, flick through the intro/concluding notes, I'm sure it's there. The gist was, I believe, to only use it for indicating possession, e.g. "John's", but not for contractions, e.g. dOnt rather than dOn't.
> Adding to the FAQ,
> --Star
Hopefully in clarification,
Hugh B
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From: Hugh Birkenhead
Date: 2004-07-21 20:47:57 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] God, NASA, and didn't
Toggle Shavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Star Raven" <celestraof12worlds@... <mailto:celestraof12worlds@...> >
> God, Death, Fate, War...
Ggod, GdeT, GfEt, GwP. There's no reason why you shouldn't use the namer dot for any word where you would deliberately use a capital letter for reasons of importance (like with the above words).
> The list goes on of personifications that we should capitolise, not to
> mention the TO trad of capitolising pronoun refs to God. Question:
> should we carry this over to shavian and use a namer dot in front of
> His, He, ect.?
If you are religious and you feel it necessary, sure. I personally don't capitalise 'god', or personal pronouns referring to him, so I would write god, hiz, hI, etc. Others could write Ggod, Ghiz, GhI if so they desired.
> Also, what of abreviations? NASA in shavian would be N-AIR-S-(short)A,
> and I shudder to think about N-(schwa)-F-T-(schwa) aka NAFTA or others
> that don't sound as good when the first shavian letter is used. Of
> course, you know that the us gov't tends to make up the acronyms first,
> but already established acronyms might cause a problem.
I suppose if the acronym is more commonly remembered than the individual words it represents, it's probably not wise to try to 're-pronounce' it in Shavian. In the media, you hear a lot about 'NASA' (pronounced nAsa) but not so much about 'the National Aeronautics and Space Administration', so maybe referring to it as GnAsa, rather than GnXsA, would be a better idea in most cases.
> One more! Contractions and possesives cause problems as well. Do we
> want to use the apostrophy to set off letters in contractions? Since
> the difference in possessives is not heard when spoken, but understood,
> do we drop it in this instance?
I think Androcles had something to say on this matter. Can't remember which part mentioned it though. If you have a copy, flick through the intro/concluding notes, I'm sure it's there. The gist was, I believe, to only use it for indicating possession, e.g. "John's", but not for contractions, e.g. dOnt rather than dOn't.
> Adding to the FAQ,
> --Star
Hopefully in clarification,
Hugh B
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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From: phild@...
Date: 2004-07-21 21:37:50 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] God, NASA, and didn't
Toggle Shavian
I think he means the part of a ship written "forecastle" but
pronounced "fo'c'sle." Check the pronunciation of "boatswain."
Words such as these should be written in Shavian as they
sound.
--Ph. D.
> --- "Newton, Philip" <Philip.Newton@...> wrote:
>> And what about "o'clock", which probably isn't even felt to be a
>> contraction
>> any more by contemporary speakers? Or fo'c'sle?
>>
>
> My nationality is showing... or what?
>
> --Star
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