Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 06:32:00 -0000, dshepx <dshep@...> wrote:
>
> What I did was to select Shaw Roman 2
> as the fixed-width font for my browser and presto, when I
> previewed my test before sending it, it appeared in Shavian.
> It also came back in Shavian when I viewed the recent messages
> posted. Even your reply was in Shavian.
>
> Does this mean that it only works for me on my computer but
> not for anyone else? I don't know.

Exactly.

Changing your browser font will affect what you see, but if you send
plain text, then others will see it in their chosen browser font --
often Arial or Times or Courier. So they'll see Roman letters.

Are you posting via the Yahoo!Groups interface or through an email
program? As far as I know, Yahoo only lets you send plain text, so you
can't send Shavian text through it that will be visible to most
people.

At the moment, the best way is to send HTML-formatted email (sometimes
called "rich text", though that can also refer to another way of
formatting), since that method lets you specify which font to use to
display a given message or parts of it; this will let the message
display in Shavian even for users who have not set an appropriate font
as default.

However, you'll need a separate email program to send HTML, since as I
said, Yahoo doesn't support it for messages sent directly through the
groups interface.

Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Philip Newton wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 06:32:00 -0000, dshepx wrote:

> > Does this mean that it only works for me on my computer but
> > not for anyone else? I don't know.
>
> Exactly.
>
> Changing your browser font will affect what you see, but if you send
> plain text, then others will see it in their chosen browser font --
> often Arial or Times or Courier. So they'll see Roman letters.

What a pity, it seemed so simple.

> Are you posting via the Yahoo!Groups interface or through an email
> program? As far as I know, Yahoo only lets you send plain text, so
> you can't send Shavian text through it that will be visible to most
> people.

I have always posted through the Yahoo interface;
I didn't know there was any other way to send anything in.


> At the moment, the best way is to send HTML-formatted email
> (sometimes called "rich text", though that can also refer to
> another way of formatting), since that method lets you specify
> which font to use to display a given message or parts of it; this
> will let the message display in Shavian even for users who have
> not set an appropriate font as default.
>
> However, you'll need a separate email program to send HTML, since
> as I said, Yahoo doesn't support it for messages sent directly
> through the groups interface.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Philip Newton <philip.newton@g...>

My email application should handle rich text, if this is the better
method to use. But I was not even aware that there was an indirect,
alternative method. To what address should such submissions be
sent? — I seem to have missed that somewhere.

many thanks,
dshep

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh Birkenhead" wrote:


> > Philip,
>
> >
>
> > It seemed to work for me. As a very-much non-geek I do not
>
> > really understand code points or all the rest of the technical
>
> > discussion, sad to say. What I did was to select Shaw Roman 2
>
> > as the fixed-width font for my browser and presto, when I
>
> > previewed my test before sending it, it appeared in Shavian.
>
> > It also came back in Shavian when I viewed the recent messages
>
> > posted. Even your reply was in Shavian.
>
> >
>
> > Does this mean that it only works for me on my computer but
>
> > not for anyone else? I don't know.
>
>
>
> unfPcanatlI, HAt's igzAktlI wot it mInz. :(
>
>
>
> V'D OnlI salektiN H font fP displE v jP On ImEl. it wil stil apC t
evribodI
> els Az /rOman.
>
>
>
> wot ImEl prOgrAm dM V Vz, enIwE?
>
>
>
> /hV /b


He ImEl AplakESan on mF mAk iz apropriatli nEmd "mEl",
kUdnt bI simplD; but mF test mesaj wyz postad darektli tM
Ha grMp intDfEs, not wiH ImEl.

dSep

> He ImEl AplakESan on mF mAk iz apropriatli nEmd "mEl",

> kUdnt bI simplD; but mF test mesaj wyz postad darektli tM

> Ha grMp intDfEs, not wiH ImEl.

>

> dSep



dM V hAv grMp mesaJaz sent t jP ImEl adres? if V dM, V kAn Just riplF t enI
wun v HOz mesaJaz n mEk SP V salekt "/h/t/m/l" P "ric tekst" mOd. if V dOnt
risIv mesaJaz vFa ImEl, send t:



shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com



t hAv grMp mesaJaz sent t jP ImEl adres, log in Az jPself At
www.yahoogroups.com/group/shavian n klik "edit mF membDSip" on H rFt v H
pEJ; Hen salekt "indiviJMal ImElz" t get Ic pOstiN sent t V.



gUd luk.



/hV /b

Hi Shep

Sorry, I used your name so unceremoniously.
Names are very important.
I would never think of you as a Sheep, or even in sense of being
Sheepish.
There are definately more Goats than Sheep in this group.
Sheep tend to mill around with out the aid of a good Shepherd,
and you can't say that we do that.

You are definately du Shep.

Regards, Paul V.


--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "dshepx" <dshep@g...> wrote:
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink" > wrote:
> >
> > Did you realize that Shep, the dog name is short for Shepherd.
> > And Shepherd is short for Sheep-herder. But if you call Shep a
Sheep,
> > he will be rightly insulted.
> > These etymological relationships are not transferable, derivable
or
> > obvious.
>
>
>
> On the internet no one knows you're a dog.
>
>
> woof!
> dshep

hF /filap & /kRal

HANk V FP agrIiN wiT n sapPtiN H Vs
(* Thank-you for agreeing with and supporting the use *)
v H /SyvIan kIbPd mApiN Az a dIfAktO stAndxd
(* of Shavian Keyboard Mapping as a defacto standard *)
until wI sPt Qt HIz teknikal iSMz.
(* until we sort out these technical issues. *)
Az F seed bifP
(* As I said before *)

wI sIm t hAv skipt a bEsik step.
(* We seem to have skipped a basic step.*)

"fMlz ruS in wX EnJalz fC t tred"

wI dM nyt hAv an IzI wE fP evrI wun t rFt in /SY.
(* We do not have an easy way for everyone to write in Shaw.*)
At lIst yn H nV /SyvIan web-pEJ.
(* At least on the new Shavian web-page *)
(* www.shavian.org *)
H IkynbPd wxks grEt.
(* The Ikonboard works great.*)
sO until wI wxk Qt H bugz, let us rItrIt.
(* So until we work out the bugs, let us retreat.*)
evrIbudI trF n Vz H /SY kIbPd mApiN.
(* Everybody try and use the Shaw Keyboard mapping.*)
until wI briN QD syftwX up t H leval nIdad.
(* Until we bring our software up to the level needed.*)

in mF kEs, /VdPa (*Eudora*), mF I-mEal prOgrAm haz txnd yf
H /Ec.tI.em.el (*HTML*) impPt fIcD yf in H publik idiSun.
F wil hAv t bF n instYl H nV pDsunal vDSun.

Duz enIwun hAv familjXutI wiT /VdPa? (*Eudora?*)

rigRdz, /pYl /vI.

PI.eS. it iz amEziN hQ muc spAs V sEv, rFtiN wiT H
/SY kIbPd mApiN.


--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, carl easton <shavintel16@y...>
wrote:
> hF /hV,
>
> F Vz a publik kumpVtD, sO Fm not Ebal t dQnlOd fonts. sO F Just Vz
H font kOdz, HO it mE not SO up on UHDz skrInz in /SyvWn. hwen V rFt
in /SyvWn F OnlI sI H /rOmanJI font kOd.
>
> sRI fP H inkonvInjans,
>
> best v rIgRdz,
>
> /kRal
>
> Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@f...> wrote:
> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
> /kRl
>
>
>
> TANkV fP riplFiN in H best Alfabet evD inventad. :) unfPcanatlI it
kEm Qt in /rOman mF end, Az V mFt bI Ebal t sI bilO. wic font wx V
VziN? H difYlt font t Vz hC iz /SY /sAnz /2.
>
>
>
> enIwun els?
>
>
>
> /hV
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> From: carl easton [mailto:shavintel16@y...]
> Sent: 03 March 2005 01:12
> To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] No more Roman please!
>
>
>
>
> hF GhV,
>
>
>
>
>
> F wil rFt in GSyvWn font kOd fP H grMp. in H GSyvWn fPum in H
GSyvWn sekSan F v kPs rFt in font kOd. sO GhV Fl ekstend mF GSyvWn
VsiJ t His grMp tM.
>
>
>
>
>
> best v rIgRdz,
>
>
>
>
>
> GkRal
>
> Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@f...> wrote:
>
>
> grMp.
>
>
>
> wuns agen, nOwun hC iz tYkiN in /SEvWn. wI'D Yl nAtDiN on abQt
sOSOliNgwistiks, fanetiks, Yltxnativ speliN sistamz n Yl HAt, n in H
mIntFm, pUD Old /SEvWn iz getiN nO atenSan wotsOevD. it's nO wundD wI
'D not getiN enI nV membDz.
>
>
>
> hQ R wI evD gOiN t kanvins H wxld v /SEvIan'z benafits if QD
Alfabet v cqs in His grMp iz not /SEvWn?
>
>
>
> wI mFt Az wel rInEm His grMp "JenDal fanetiks|speliN rifPm diskuSan
grMp?
>
>
>
> enI riplFz t His mesiJ not ritan in /SEvWn wil bI dalItad. :-)
>
>
>
> /hV
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.7 - Release Date:
01/03/2005
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.7 - Release Date:
01/03/2005
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.7 - Release Date:
01/03/2005
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
> Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

(His mesaJ hAz bin ritan in bOT GSEvWn n GrOman - This message has
been written in both Shavian and Roman)

GmAk OS X hAndal GwindOz GtrMtFp fonts (along wiH GtFp 1,
GOpentFp, n mAni uHDz) wel enuf. HE mE not displE egzAktli H
sEm, but it sImz YlrFt fP mI. if V Vz an OldD vxZan, V’l nId
t kanvxt it. V kAn get a kanvxtD hC:
http://fontaddict.com/fa/mac/ttconverter.hqx
V’l nId Gstufit t dIkampres it.

on a similD nOt, Fv hAd sum spEsiN iSMz wiH H GSY sAnz No. 2
font. F dOnt Vz GwindOz muc, n F hAv nO FdIa if His problam
egzists on GwindOz Az wel, so His mE bI H rezUlt v VziN a GwindOz
font on a GmAk. H letD spEsiN iz veri, n mF ImEl klFent
(GontMDyZ), bIiN a GmFkrOsoft produkt, mOstli ignPz kxniN, mEkiN
GSEvWn tekst veri hRd t rId. F modifFd H font fP mF pxsanal
Vs, but F kUdant get it t wxk.

if enIbodI els hAz His problam, mF salMSan wUd bI t pUt tM (2)
spEsaz bitwIn wxdz (Az F hAv dun hC) t avqd konfVZan bitwIn letD
spEsaz n wxd spEsaz. His iz a wxkarQnd fP mI until a betD
salMSan kAn bI fQnd - a wFdD spEs kAraktD n mP Ivan letD spEsiN
wUd bI best.



Mac OS X handles Windows TrueType fonts (along with Type 1, OpenType, and
many others) well enough. They may not display exactly the same, but it
seems alright for me. If you use an older version, you’ll need to convert
it. You can get a converter here:
http://fontaddict.com/fa/mac/ttconverter.hqx
You’ll need StuffIt to decompress it.

On a similar note, I’ve had some spacing issues with the Shaw Sans No. 2
font. I don’t use Windows much, and I have no idea if this problem exists
on Windows as well, so this may be the result of using a Windows font on a
Mac. The letter spacing is very strange, and my email client (Entourage),
being a Microsoft product, mostly ignores kerning, making Shavian text very
hard to read. I modified the font for my personal use, but I couldn’t get it
to work.

If anybody else has this problem, my solution would be to put two spaces
between words (as I have done above) to avoid confusion between letter
spaces and word spaces. This is a workaround for me until a better solution
can be found - a wider space character and more even letter spacing would be
best.


Regards,
Joe Spicer
/JO spFsD



On 3/9/05 3:21 PM, "Scott Harrison" <nik@...> wrote:

>
> On Mar 8, 2005, at 02:41, Hugh Birkenhead wrote:
>
>> I remember somebody saying they’d convert it... to whoever it was: is the
>> offer still open?
>>
>>
>> Is the Shaw Sans No. 2 font available for Mac?
>>
>>
> This font is a True Type font. All you need to do is download it and put it
> with the rest of your fonts. It should work fine. At least on a modern Mac
> OS it should. You may have problems with people not specifying in their HTML
> the proper name for the font, and therefore you may not see the characters in
> Shavian properly.
>
> --
> ·𐑕𐑒𐑪𐑑 ·𐑣𐑺𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑯 Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86
>

its Yl pRt v a glObal kumMnakESun prYblem.
(* It's all part of a global communication problem. *)
abQt 400 miljan pIpal spIk /iNgliS.
(* About 400 million people speak English, *)
(*as their first language, an additional 700 million or so *)
(* use it as a second language, *)
(* and a billion people more are struggling to learn how to speak it. *)
(* Meanwhile, other languages are disappearing every month. *)
wI nId a salMSun.
(* We need a solution. *)

prypaziSan

wI hAv /bEsik /iNgliS fP H wxd styk.
wI hAv H /SYvIan Alfabet.
Yl wI nId iz a simplafFd /iNgliS grAmar t pUt H wxdz tMgeHD n Yl
HOz frustrEtad pOtenSal /iNgliS spIkxz kUd bI Ebal t spIk /iNgliS.
pDhAps wI kAn Vz sumTiN bEst yn /piJan /iNgliS.

hwut dV TiNk?

rIgRdz, /pYl /vI.


______________________attached_________________________
At 11:55 AM 3/16/05, you wrote:
What is the point.
Why persist in using Shavian when a Simplified Roman Alphabet (CUT)
will meet more peoples needs?

hF /hV

In your original message, "No more Roman please!", you wrote.
"enI riplFz t His mesiJ not ritan in /SEvWn wil bI dalItad. :-)"
Some people seem to have taken this to mean that this is now a Shavian
letter only site.

His gOz agEnst H pDpes v His sFt wic iz t enkDeJ
(* This goes against the purpose of this site which is to encourage *)
n help nMkumxz lxn t Vz H /SYvIan Alfabet.
(* and help newcomers learn to use the Shavian Alphabet. *)
nV tYpiks hAv kum t a grFndiN hYlt, n intDest in QD sFt sImz t
bI drYpiN. wI nId t rivxs His trend.

I think that you can see that all of the regulars are quite
conversant with Shavian. We don't have to prove anything.

The odd other topic that comes along on this site, unless it is
completely extraneous to the subject of writing Phonetically in
Shavian or Keyboard Shavian should be accepted by one and all.
As we have seen from all this testing, not all of the community has a
platform that can produce Shavian letters in this forum.

sO sum v us must rizPt t kIbPd /SYvIan fP H tFm bIiN.
(* So some of us must resort to Keyboard Shavian *)
His iz H midal wE.
(* This is the middle way. *)
dM V hAv enI kYments?

rigRdz, /pYl /vI.
________________attached____________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh Birkenhead"
<mixsynth@f...> wrote:
> grMp.
>
>
>
> wuns agen, nOwun hC iz tYkiN in /SEvWn. wI'D Yl nAtDiN on abQt
> sOSOliNgwistiks, fanetiks, Yltxnativ speliN sistamz n Yl HAt, n in
H mIntFm,
> pUD Old /SEvWn iz getiN nO atenSan wotsOevD. it's nO wundD wI'D not
getiN
> enI nV membDz.
>
>
>
> hQ R wI evD gOiN t kanvins H wxld v /SEvIan'z benafits if QD
Alfabet v cqs
> in His grMp iz not /SEvWn?
>
>
>
> wI mFt Az wel rInEm His grMp "JenDal fanetiks|speliN rifPm diskuSan
grMp".
>
>
>
> enI riplFz t His mesiJ not ritan in /SEvWn wil bI dalItad. :-)
>
>
>
> /hV
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.7 - Release Date:
01/03/2005

/hF /pYl



F OnlI sed, "enI riplFz t *His mesaJ* wil bI dalItad", i.e. enI riplFz H HAt
Tred. HAt did not saJest enI nV konvDsESanz not in /SEvWn wUd bI dalItad. F
woz YlsO not sCIas abQt dalItiN enITiN, hens H ":-)" -- F kUdnt dalIt enITiN
from His list Ivan if F wontad t, bikoz mesaJaz R distribjatad vFa ImEl.



H fAkt HAt intDest in H grMp hAz tempDeralI tEld of iz nuTiN t dM wiH wot F
rOt. it Just hApanz sumtFmz. it's bIn kwFat hC fP a lot loNgD in H pAst.



Az fP H regjalDz not hAviN t "prMv enITiN", HAt's not wot it's abQt. H pqnt
F woz mEkiN woz, wot's H pqnt in hAviN a grMp fP an imprMvd, sMpCID Alfabet
if Yl wI dM iz tYk in H Alfabet wI'D AdvakEtiN t riplEs? Yl wI get iz topiks
abQt 'y' vxsas 'o', 'u' vxsas 'a', n uHD topiks HAt kIp getiN diskust OvD n
OvD. Just Vz H Alfabet, dOnt kIp tYkiN endlaslI abQt it.



F'm awX menI pIpl R hAviN difikaltIz salektiN fonts in HX /ImEl prOgrAmz.
His iz unfPcanat. F'm sDprFzd, in 2005, sum mElrIdDz stil kAnt Ivan displE
/html mEl, let alOn rFt it. rimembD, enIwun kAn pOst in /rOman - nObodI kAn
stop Tem! but if pIpl kAn pOst in /SEvWn, F pxsanalI TiNk HE SUd. uHDwFz wI
mFt Az wel Yl admit HAt /SEvWn rWlI iznt H fAntAstik nV wE t rFt /iNgliS wI
kIp klEmiN it t bI.



if enIwun wUd lFk sum help in rIdiN|rFtiN /html mEl, dM Ask. mEbI H salMSan
iz simplD HAn V TiNk.



/hV /b



> -----Original Message-----

> From: paul vandenbrink [mailto:pvandenbrink@...]

> Sent: 20 March 2005 05:47

> To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [shawalphabet] Re-evaluation: "No more Roman please!"

>

>

>

> hF /hV

>

> In your original message, "No more Roman please!", you wrote.

> "enI riplFz t His mesiJ not ritan in /SEvWn wil bI dalItad. :-)"

> Some people seem to have taken this to mean that this is now a Shavian

> letter only site.

>

> His gOz agEnst H pDpes v His sFt wic iz t enkDeJ

> (* This goes against the purpose of this site which is to encourage *)

> n help nMkumxz lxn t Vz H /SYvIan Alfabet.

> (* and help newcomers learn to use the Shavian Alphabet. *)

> nV tYpiks hAv kum t a grFndiN hYlt, n intDest in QD sFt sImz t

> bI drYpiN. wI nId t rivxs His trend.

>

> I think that you can see that all of the regulars are quite

> conversant with Shavian. We don't have to prove anything.

>

> The odd other topic that comes along on this site, unless it is

> completely extraneous to the subject of writing Phonetically in

> Shavian or Keyboard Shavian should be accepted by one and all.

> As we have seen from all this testing, not all of the community has a

> platform that can produce Shavian letters in this forum.

>

> sO sum v us must rizPt t kIbPd /SYvIan fP H tFm bIiN.

> (* So some of us must resort to Keyboard Shavian *)

> His iz H midal wE.

> (* This is the middle way. *)

> dM V hAv enI kYments?

>

> rigRdz, /pYl /vI.

> ________________attached____________________

> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh Birkenhead"

> <mixsynth@f...> wrote:

> > grMp.

> >

> >

> >

> > wuns agen, nOwun hC iz tYkiN in /SEvWn. wI'D Yl nAtDiN on abQt

> > sOSOliNgwistiks, fanetiks, Yltxnativ speliN sistamz n Yl HAt, n in

> H mIntFm,

> > pUD Old /SEvWn iz getiN nO atenSan wotsOevD. it's nO wundD wI'D not

> getiN

> > enI nV membDz.

> >

> >

> >

> > hQ R wI evD gOiN t kanvins H wxld v /SEvIan'z benafits if QD

> Alfabet v cqs

> > in His grMp iz not /SEvWn?

> >

> >

> >

> > wI mFt Az wel rInEm His grMp "JenDal fanetiks|speliN rifPm diskuSan

> grMp".

> >

> >

> >

> > enI riplFz t His mesiJ not ritan in /SEvWn wil bI dalItad. :-)

> >

> >

> >

> > /hV

> >

> >

> > --

> > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.7 - Release Date:

> 01/03/2005

>

>

>

>

>

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